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回覆 (2078): VPI
Power wise, I think the VPI SDS put out about 30W. I tried the SDS on the Rockport, and it had trouble starting the platter turning. I checked with Mark Kelly, and he said the motor might have a too high back EMF.  
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it sounds like serious stuff.
drwkng
13-01-11
16:06:05
回覆 (2077): VPI
 
>what kind of spec are we talking about?<  
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This is the information of the Basis Synchro-Wave power supply, which is more sophisticated than the VPI SDS, as it produces 2 sine waves to fed the different coils, eliminating the phase splitter cap, and lessens the vibration of the motor.  
 
Power wise, I think the VPI SDS put out about 30W. I tried the SDS on the Rockport, and it had trouble starting the platter turning. I checked with Mark Kelly, and he said the motor might have a too high back EMF.  
 
With the PS Powerplant 300, I can start the platter turning at 33 (50 Hz), but not 45 (67 Hz). With the Powerplant 1200, I could start the platter at both 33 and 45, but I can’t switch from 33 to 45 by changing the frequency on the fly!  
 
So, not sure what the problem is!
http://basisaudio.com/docs/power_supply_tech.pdf
thekong
13-01-11
15:44:39
回覆 (2076): VPI
Maybe you should really consider designing one!  
 
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what kind of spec are we talking about?
drwkng
13-01-11
15:02:55
回覆 (2075): VPI
 
>shit! i thought i was only joking. people actually produces one! <  
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There seems to be guys more crazier that you are! :-)  
 
Maybe you should really consider designing one!  
 
Here is what Fremer of Stereophile said on the subject:  
 
“With the Brinkmann-EMT back in the 10.5 arm, I spent an evening going back and forth between the power supplies, and there was a definite, easily heard difference between them. Call me gullible—I don't care. The two supplies produced distinctly different results, the clichés about the differences between tubed and solid-state gear proving remarkably if subtly true. The tubed supply produced a more vibrant, transparent sound, with greater image dimensionality and a fuller, somewhat more "golden" harmonic palette. The solid-state supply delivered a somewhat drabber, drier picture, but one that was better organized overall, with slightly finer, better-defined images. Still, I greatly preferred the vibrancy and immediacy of the tubed supply. If you're fortunate enough to own a Brinkmann Balance, don't hesitate to at least give the tubed supply a try. “  
 
thekong
13-01-11
14:54:39
回覆 (2075): VPI
We have a Brinkmann dealer in San Jose last time I visit them, may be time to revisit ...
http://theanalogroom.com/
Cadiver
13-01-11
14:51:49
回覆 (2078): Pierre Clement
咁平? 睇相用料高幾班喎!  
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有无看错,粗野来呀。
drwkng
13-01-11
14:49:53
回覆 (2077): Pierre Clement
The price is US$50K per set. The build quality seems way higher than Aesthetix though!  
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咁平? 睇相用料高幾班喎!
Derek2A3
13-01-11
14:44:50
回覆 (2074): VPI
The only tube SDS that I am aware of is the Brinkmann, and reviewers claimed that it sounded better than the stock SS power supply! But I believe it only works with their own TTs.  
 
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shit! i thought i was only joking. people actually produces one!
drwkng
13-01-11
14:04:29
回覆 (2073): VPI
 
>so are you giong to get a tube version of SDS then?<  
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Are you making one? I am certainly interested! I have been trying to fine a controller for for my Rockport, preferable with 2 phase (or is it 3 phase) supply to get rid of the phase splitting cap.!  
 
The only tube SDS that I am aware of is the Brinkmann, and reviewers claimed that it sounded better than the stock SS power supply! But I believe it only works with their own TTs.  
 
thekong
13-01-11
13:48:50
回覆 (2076): Pierre Clement
 
>一黎就六套, 豪呀! 直頭攞個代理權番黎啦, 可以再平D……..<  
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Oh yes, they don't have an Hong Kong agent yet!  
 
The price is US$50K per set. The build quality seems way higher than Aesthetix though!  
 
thekong
13-01-11
13:37:29
回覆 (2072): VPI
Many of today’s high-end TTs do come with their dedicated power supplies! I believe motor controller is a must if you get above a certain level of the vinyl food chain!  
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so are you giong to get a tube version of SDS then?
drwkng
13-01-11
12:54:06
回覆 (2075): Pierre Clement
Good point! I suppose he has to get a 6-pack of these then! ;-)  
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一黎就六套, 豪呀! 直頭攞個代理權番黎啦, 可以再平D
Derek2A3
13-01-11
12:26:12
回覆 (2074): Pierre Clement
 
>This is grossly inadequate for daiwok. Where is he supposed to do with the rest of his phonos? <  
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Good point! I suppose he has to get a 6-pack of these then! ;-)  
 
 
thekong
13-01-11
11:33:10
回覆 (2073): Pierre Clement
 
 
4 inputs, maximum input 130mV, separate power supply and total weight over 100lbs!  
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A body weight of 100 lbs ought to be something not to be taken lightly, but the provision of only 4 inputs is rather shameful. 12 should be the absolute minimum or else it cannot be called "designed for extreme applications". An oversight obviously!  
 
This is grossly inadequate for daiwok. Where is he supposed to do with the rest of his phonos?  
 
 
limage
13-01-11
10:59:44
回覆 (2072): Pierre Clement
 
Diawok,  
 
Did you mention you were looking for a phono with 20mV input capability for your Pierre Clement cartridge?  
 
This is the one for you, 4 inputs, maximum input 130mV, separate power supply and total weight over 100lbs! :-)  
 
http://www.vac-amps.com/productPages/statementPhonoPreamp.html
thekong
13-01-11
09:55:02
回覆 (2071): VPI
 
According to what I have read, the 60Hz of the Hong Kong power supply is just an average figure, which could vary over a small range due to the load demand and other factors. While this wouldn’t cause any problem with normal household appliances, it would cause the speed of the TT to drift.  
 
Furthermore, the garbage create by the numerous switching power supplies in your and your neighbour's house, can also cause a slight deformation of the wave form of that 60Hz. According to PS Audio, this can actually be measured as THD!  
 
These motor controllers are basically a power amp fed by a signal generator, so you can change the output frequency and, most likely be cleaner than the power from the wall socket. As you may aware, some TTs, in their stocks form, actually run slightly fast intentionally to create a fake sense of PRAT. Just like some TVs are tuned to have more vivid colors in the showrooms to give you the wow factor. Without these controllers, it would be very difficult for you to fine tune the speed.  
 
Many of today’s high-end TTs do come with their dedicated power supplies! I believe motor controller is a must if you get above a certain level of the vinyl food chain!  
 
thekong
13-01-11
08:55:05
回覆 (2070): VPI
Emmmmm! I dont know lor! On the one hand, I mean, isn't HK Electric and China Light & Power have the most powerful, lowest impedance, bullet proof, most stablized voltage and Hz power plant/supplies you can get in HK? Who can be better with only a fraction of its scale and size ar?  
 
My other hand, emmm, all those huge air cons, high frequency carbbage surely cant be any good to our wall socket supply, right?  
 
You know what, i believe that any turntable should come with a standard power supply or if not, its kind of hard to justify spending more than 1/5 on a power supply of the total value of the turntable arm and cartridge combo lor!  
 
Let say you have spend 50K dollar on the turntable, arm and cartridge, then the most you should spend to upgrade a power supply is 12.5k lor!  
 
Its all really hang in the balance that matters, right!
bobui
13-01-10
18:19:32
回覆 (2069): VPI
 
Yes, some laboratory equipment also have the same function, so it is not really invented by VPI. Actually, ClearAudio, Walker and Kuzma also offer similar controllers!  
 
However, innovative or not, the most important point is that it works as claimed!  
 
 
thekong
13-01-10
17:10:05
回覆 (2068): VPI
 
 
This is nothing new and by no means innovative. For many years boaters make use of the inverter to turn DC into AC to operate microwave ovens on board their boats. Air-cons also use this inverter principle to run the compressors at different speed to optimize their efficiency.  
 
 
limage
13-01-10
16:50:53
回覆 (2067): VPI
 
Ok, looks like VPI is revamping its website, and information on the SDS is not relisted yet.  
 
SDS is the motor controller by VPI. Basically, it is a power regenerator (just like the PS Audio powerplant) that could put out AC power with a perfect (or much better than those from wall socket) sine wave, which would smooth out the motor.  
 
Another function of the SDS is that it can change the frequency of its AC output (can’t quite remember the range) in steps of 0.01Hz, so you can set the AC motor TT’s speed precisely!  
 
You can also switch the speed of your AC motor TT by changing the AC frequency instead of using the different slots on the motor pulley.  
 
thekong
13-01-10
16:06:30
回覆 (2066): VPI
still don't know what is SDS after reading a couple more responses .... :-(  
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You not the only one lor!  
 
Here is what i think.......... but I dont think i will get a beer this time lor!  
 
The SDS as i understand is to connect the wall socket AC mains to a motor generator, the generator then send out a different kind of AC if not better, so you can take this new AC to a circuit to stablize the Hz and connect to your turntable. What am I talking about??????  
 
You have a small power plant lor! Oh, sorry, you dont! You still rely on the AC mains socket!!!  
 
bobui
13-01-10
15:22:20
回覆 (2065): VPI
>>If you decide to get the VPI, then you may want to budget in the SDS also, as it improves the performance considerably!  
 
I still don't know what is SDS after reading a couple more responses .... :-(
Cadiver
13-01-10
14:40:11
回覆 (2064): VPI
next Pint is mine for the write up on motors ! 8^)  
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Thanks! And that would be for not making a fool of myself! Emmmmmm! or did I?  
 
I like to acquire the below for my "long sit still" Terminator linear arm. Anyone who has experience or knowledge on this particualr Oracle. Please share.
bobui
13-01-10
13:23:14
回覆 (2063): VPI
Bobui,  
 
next Pint is mine for the write up on motors ! 8^)
daiwok
13-01-10
12:27:59
回覆 (2062): VPI
the Lenco and Garrard used inductance motors, which is quite different from the AC motors on most belt drive  
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Tell me if I am incorrect.  
 
Induction motor refer to AC motor. There are two main types of AC motors.  
 
1. Asynchronous motor or induction motor is an older type of AC motor, the rotor is commonly ferromagnetic, not permanently magnetized. The copper winding is on the stator ( the inside of the motor case). The AC is apply to the stator to create a magnetic field. The Grarrad use this particular type, right!  
 
2. Synchronous motor. Mostly permanent magnet motor. The rotation of the shaft is synchronized with the FREQUENCY of the supply current. Synchronous motors contain electromagnets on the stator. This type of motor can produce a more precise constant speed and can be made to smaller size with greater efficiency. The speed is not affect by the load over the operating range and is as accurate as the power supply line frequency. Thats also why most 80s made turntable adopt this kind of motor. 50Hz is pretty stable, right!  
 
The increasing number of DC motors for turntable design is becasue of the growing number of lower price, highly efficiency transistor regulator and the advancement of Brushless DC motor. Ah, for your info. AC motors are mostly brushless.
bobui
13-01-10
11:38:35
回覆 (2061): VPI
 
>http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/50/509666.html<  
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The OP probably have never heard true hiend DDs! ;-)  
 
thekong
13-01-09
17:13:57
回覆 (2060): VPI
 
> the SDS didn't do a thing for the Lenco<  
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Yes, if I remember correctly from Mark Kelly, the Lenco and Garrard used inductance motors, which is quite different from the AC motors on most belt drive.  
 
Mark was designing a motor controller for the Lenco/Garrard, and when I asked him when that controller would work with AC motor, he said no!  
 
thekong
13-01-09
17:00:50
回覆 (2059): VPI
As someone who replaced a VPI TNT with a re-plinthed Lenco,  
 
from Audio Asylum .......
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/50/509666.html
daiwok
13-01-09
16:36:10
回覆 (2058): VPI
put a VPI at home this time around ...  
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12-09-11: Dopogue  
When I had a VPI TNT Mk. II, I found that the SDS controller/regenerator was essential to optimizing its sonics. I figured it would be equally essential with the Nantais Lenco that replaced it (replaced in turn by another 2-arm Lenco).  
 
Turns out, the SDS didn't do a thing for the Lenco. Nothing. Zip. The Lenco sure beat the TNT in every way that's important to me, but I couldn't tell a bit of difference whether it was plugged into the SDS or directly into the wall. I'm not sure what that proves, and I certainly wouldn't second-guess Jean's ability to come up with a better PS, but I wouldn't expect it to be cheap.  
 
........ you will find a number of VPI owners selling up and replacing them with a idler wheel TT which is the very reason why VPI decided to make a idler version as well .....
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1323387009&openflup&2&4
daiwok
13-01-09
16:35:12
回覆 (2057): VPI
 
If you decide to get the VPI, then you may want to budget in the SDS also, as it improves the performance considerably!  
 
thekong
13-01-09
16:25:17
回覆 (2056): VPI
Cool, I am in no rush, going into a new year, ass-itch of course. Just want to put some plans and budget in place for 2013 ...  
Please post pix once you have it set up.  
I do kind of want to support the US business & put a VPI at home this time around ...
Cadiver
13-01-09
16:07:08
回覆 (2055): VPI
If you want a nice unipivot arm then I would say take a look at PRIMARY CONTROL. The finish is spectacular ! I will have one in my system hopefully in a few weeks time 8^)
http://primarycontrol.nl
daiwok
13-01-09
15:56:49
回覆 (2054): VPI
Does this work ?? Vpi Aries + artemis arm + benz ebony (or similar price cart)
http://vpiindustries.com/table-aries3.htm
Cadiver
13-01-09
15:51:32
回覆 (2053): VPI
 
>The title thread should give you an indicator the type of turntable you should buy ! <  
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VPI does offer idler drive as well! :-)  
 
thekong
13-01-09
15:19:42
回覆 (2052): VPI
 
>Since the day of TNT departed, their products were kind of showing up in a very low profile way, never a direct hit against player like clear audio, Nottingham, etc. <  
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My impression is quite the opposite! Their Classic series has received very positive reviews from TAS (by HP no less) and Stereophile (Fremer). I believe both of them consider the Classic as VPI’s best TT ever, which gives up little when compared to some ultra expensive TTs.  
 
Their HR-X was also the talk of the town when it was introduced. There are many discussions regarding VPI on Audiogon as well.  
 
The VPI’s are cheap compared to TTs of similar performance, but their built quality and finishes are not that impressive!  
 
On the other hand, my feeling is very few people talk about Nottingham these days!  
 
thekong
13-01-09
15:17:33
回覆 (2051): VPI
Cadiver,  
 
The title thread should give you an indicator the type of turntable you should buy ! My home is dedicated by idler drives and its not just one or two but over a dozen of them !! 8^)
daiwok
13-01-09
15:13:06
回覆 (2050): VPI
Yes & no .... Since the day of TNT departed, their products were kind of showing up in a very low profile way, never a direct hit against player like clear audio, Nottingham, etc. that's what I am thinking. Lately, I like the style of the traveller, so cute that I am debating if I should get one over the clear audio Concept. I hope they sounds good and they are really cheap!
Cadiver
13-01-09
14:54:15
回覆 (2049): VPI
 
>....seems a lot of VPI tables. Think they are coming back ??<  
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Coming back? They have never left, and offering many different models of TTs and tonearms over the years, from belt drive to idler! :-)  
 
 
thekong
13-01-09
13:44:50
回覆 (2048): VPI
Saw a lot of pix from CES, seems a lot of VPI tables. Think they are coming back ??
Cadiver
13-01-09
12:45:14
回覆 (2047): Lenco Magic
A nice review from a friend of mine in Austria. I had a nice surprise when I met up with Norbert at the European Triode Festival in November and he told me about this write up.  
 
http://theaudioeagle.com/columns/lenco_magic.html
daiwok
13-01-06
18:03:25