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回覆 (1096): Welborne's AER Horn project !!
minimalistic "zen" approach to crossover design, 1 cap and a attenuator resistor for horn, 1 coil for low pass. period.
Welborne
10-07-22
23:05:28
回覆 (1095): Welborne's AER Horn project !!
just when I am questioning myself about the merit and rationale behind horn top and open back woofer, i found this Yamamoto commercical product. Not only the box is simple, the crossover is ultra simple too, first order 1 cap plus 1 resistor for horn driver, and one c-core (yamamoto, of course) inductor for a first order LPF for the woofer  
 
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/yamamoto9/speaker.html
Welborne
10-07-22
23:04:10
回覆 (1094): Welborne's AER Horn project !!
we755a in reso cabinet? wow. i must see and hear that. I had a pair of WE755a too and loved it so much on open baffle. But after I heard SABA 10" coaxial i thought it was time to sell them.  
 
I tried Joseph Esmilla's OB before, which in fact is almost a straight copy of Stereo Sound's OB for testing fullrange drivers. Coincidentally, the dimension of that baffle is almost exactly the same at Quad ESL57 as well as Wharfedale's SFB (i guessed that stands for Sand-Filled Baffle) loudspeaker system. Those who love the JE Lab baffle will think there must be 'some magic' in that E  
SL 57 dimension. I really don't know. One friend of mine from Taipei " Mr. Bulldog"'s main system is centred around such baffle and his more than 100+ pairs of different fullrange drivers. And guess what..his favourite is also WE755a. IIRC, he has about 3 different pairs of Altec/WE 755a, Altec 755c/e etc.  
 
Two german friends decided to help me to build a horn system here by providing with the type of drivers and schematics of crossover. One of these two gentlemen is a loudspeaker designer in Germany who also took part in the annual European Triode Festival (ETF) and his projects include a total rebuilt Eurodyn horn/baffle crossover. I am waiting for more information from them. Yes, the bass will be open baffle.
Welborne
10-07-17
01:56:04
回覆 (1093): Welborne's AER Horn project !!
This is taken from Joseph Esmilla's website whom I have a lot of respect. Did you know he is a famous violinist and use to reside in the US and is now back in Manila. A great guy and certainly followed his development. He too has a Lenco of course ^__*  
 
Now I did experiment for a short time on a dipole bass but I feel you need space to experiment properly and I am not sure you can get the texture of the bass like I can now. Certainly space and soundstage sounds great.  
 
Now Joseph is first a foremost a music lover, no system can ever replicate the live music he plays. He is also a vivid MONO lover - another indication for the love of music. I do feel Joseph gave up the ghost of being an audiophile and chasing that rainbow when he turned to Mono - why ? because when you have been involved as a musician on the road with great focus on perfecting playback - you tend to want to switch at home and listen to tone and musicality - not hi fidelity !  
 
Joseph was one if not the "early" adopter of the WE755 in the open baffle we see, yet this does not produce the best sound IMHO - Rafal C now has the WE755 in RESO cabinet and is stunned how good it can sound.  
 
The lesson to learn is while conclusions cannot be always be final, what works or does not work is not by any means a be all and end all.  
 
I believe that the way his system is setup will never sound exactly right, a two way system is easier to crossover and less complicated, but compression horns limit you on the frequency range of the drivers, so most compression systems are 3 way seldom 2 way. If you can get a horn to crossover from 200Hz and below, integration is much easier - you are then left to deal with phasing and timing !  
 
Now the interesting fact is that my front horn is in fact a dipole ! this is not the same with compression horns or Oris horns ^__*  
 
Also remember, even those playing compression horns or not are turning towards LeCleac'h flare - Azzolina Audio is one (started with Oris Tractrix) and more recently Lynn Olson who had some horns made for him from Azura Audio ^__^
daiwok
10-07-16
18:14:32
回覆 (1092): Welborne's AER Horn project !!
Daiwork,  
 
I did get in touch with the guy who made this front horn/fullrange+open baffle project and he replied. I quoted one final paragraph from his reply:  
 
"It's still a dilemma to me. I know such horn is not perfect, but I'm still using it. Maybe I'm just lazy, or don't have the courage to start over. But if I really have to start over, a 2-way with smaller horn + dipole bass will be my first choice. 2nd is full-range dipole with a fullranger on top."  
 
So his view is compression driver trounce his front horn (but may be not AER MD3). He rather keeps the bass as dipole.  
 
So perhaps something similar to this but with a spherical horn instead of those ringing vintage altec...
http://members.myactv.net/~je2a3/friends.htm
Welborne
10-07-16
17:13:44
回覆 (1091): Welborne's AER Horn project !!
I like it too but my boss did not allow me to place such a huge animal in my home.  
 
BTW., when will you kick start this AER horn project ?  
 
Vash
10-07-15
19:19:38
回覆 (1090): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Welborne
10-07-15
16:15:53
回覆 (1089): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
horn and dipole together...reminds me of those old WE and Klangfilm sound system of this same concept.
Welborne
10-07-15
16:00:41
回覆 (1088): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
oh.,..i found something that interest me more than anything else....  
 
High Quality Fullrange (such as AER) + front loaded horn, + open back (dipole) + 18" open baffle woofer.  
 
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147101-dipole-bass-oris-horn.html
Welborne
10-07-15
15:58:59
回覆 (1087): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
ackcheng,  
 
Kuro informed me your home got upgraded recently....hee...hee....  
 
^___~
Vash
10-07-14
22:40:44
回覆 (1086): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
I love horns too! But I guess I need to upgrade my home first. This is even harder than getting a nice horns!
ackcheng
10-07-14
22:35:51
回覆 (1085): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Welborne,  
 
Very cool website ^__^
daiwok
10-07-14
20:20:53
回覆 (1084): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
nice listening room.
Welborne
10-07-14
19:57:03
回覆 (1083): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
my german friend, Nikolaus referred me to this website that sells Spherical horn and a special package with BMD 4590 (not 4592nd). Found some yummy images in the "customer project" section.  
 
http://www.stereo-lab.de/EN/Customer%20Projects.html
Welborne
10-07-14
19:56:16
回覆 (1082): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
One thing to consider is that the Tractrix horn flare why traditional and tried and tested, it does pose a throatiness in the sound, something which the LeCleac'h flare does not have in IMHO which is the reason for my choice  
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daiwok, you are spot on. It is that often "throatiness" that deter me away from getting my fingers on horn. Even my La Scala was very throaty, but then it is with this "throatiness" that I heard the must "goose bumps" triggering saxophone and Aaron Neville so far.  
 
Welborne
10-07-14
19:44:58
回覆 (1081): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
don't worry. when i get a pair of 20.1 you will be the first one to try out the Reps 1^-^  
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a recent audition of the 20.1 with the "usual suspects" did not go down too well and far from impressive ........ but of course I was thousands of miles away when this was all happening @[email protected]
daiwok
10-07-14
19:23:04
回覆 (1080): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
I think one day, I need to steal those Reps-1 from the Good Doctor and try them out on my front horns ^__*  
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don't worry. when i get a pair of 20.1 you will be the first one to try out the Reps 1^-^
drwkng
10-07-14
19:15:59
回覆 (1079): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Thank you for the kind words Welborne. You witness my metamorphosis from back loaded horns to front horns ^__^  
 
Now I have also followed Bert Doppenberg's work and I know a few friends who were part of his development work and Fillip Keller's development of the AER drivers.  
 
I also considered experimenting the BMS 4592 which has a very nice range and very wide for a compression driver something of a rarity and also very affordable. There is a tweak you can do on the BMS 4592 by taking it apart and plugging in a hole between the coupling flanges. This gives a much more solidity to the sound. The beauty of the BMS 4592 is that you can crossover at 300Hz which is pretty good, but a full range will allow you to crossover much lower - therefore easier on the bass unit. I was going to have an adapter made for my Azura Horns so I could hear the BMS 4592 on my system, but was persuaded to drop the idea as the mid range could not match the AER MD3, this is a compression vs full range discussion really.  
 
One thing to consider is that the Tractrix horn flare why traditional and tried and tested, it does pose a throatiness in the sound, something which the LeCleac'h flare does not have in IMHO which is the reason for my choice.  
 
I have the same BD-design bass cabinets, but with some rather special 15 inch woofers.  
 
I think one day, I need to steal those Reps-1 from the Good Doctor and try them out on my front horns ^__*  
 
A final word on these type of speakers, the crossover is very challenging and will not be cheap ! I spent a lot of money - probably more than my power amp on the crossover !  
 
daiwok
10-07-14
19:01:05
回覆 (1078): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
OH Horn ? Welborne, you will be very 'dai wok' soon !! Scratch build the Horn spk. based on BD design and cost are another level on your expense.....  
 
^0^  
 
Vash
10-07-14
16:42:19
回覆 (1078): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
oh,forgot to also mention dr,king's as his is also one of the best sound i have heard. Just that sometimes i forget his Reps1 are indeed horns too. :)  
 
Welborne
10-07-14
16:39:22
回覆 (1077): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
While digging out ideas on internet about what to build next....the word HORN keeps coming back to my mind.  
 
My last horn was a pair of Klipsch La Scala (almost like new in box) and owing to lack of space, I sold them and moved no to german fullrange+open baffle.  
 
I have listened to quite a fair bit of horn system in the last decade and most were rather dissapointing in terms of the quality I like, except Daiwok's. Simple and elegant.  
 
And more researching on Daiwok's bring me to Orpheans MK2 from BD-Design, based on the BMS coaxial compressionn driver and spherical tractrix horn......  
 
Welborne
10-07-14
16:22:47
回覆 (1076): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
DY,  
 
Wanna have an audition to my Saba Reso ?  
 
^0^
Vash
10-07-13
16:17:15
回覆 (1075): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
SABA Meersburg Automatic 7 - using 8" greencone drivers  
Sound is clean and clear
DY
10-07-13
14:29:14
回覆 (1074): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Proac 1sc
ackcheng
10-07-13
09:30:31
回覆 (1073): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
>>>...using GG pre and Charlize - sounds really good  
 
Which speaker your friend use ?
Vash
10-07-13
01:06:41
回覆 (1072): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
I built an integreted amp for my fiend before using GG pre and Charlize - sounds really good
ackcheng
10-07-13
00:31:35
回覆 (1071): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
But I don't have Charlize2, you are invited !  
 
Vash
10-07-12
18:50:23
回覆 (1070): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
not always, but when I don't have Zen myself...i can only read those as a rough guide.  
 
So you guys will be the judge when you have the charlize2 and Zen head to head with your saba reso.  
Welborne
10-07-12
18:24:01
回覆 (1069): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Oh....you "trust" those online review rather than making the judgement by yourself ?  
 
Vash
10-07-12
18:00:07
回覆 (1068): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
There are many on line reviews/comparison between charlize2 and gainclone in the past. Most of those favour Charlize2 if i recall correctly.
Welborne
10-07-12
17:26:19
回覆 (1067): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
That's cool, should I use the Gainclone vs your Charlize 2 ?
Vash
10-07-12
17:10:19
回覆 (1066): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
i know one Pass Zen amp owner gave up Zen after hearing his Charlize 2.
Welborne
10-07-12
16:22:44
回覆 (1066): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
I can bring along my lovely Charlize 2 t-amp, this is one tamp without input capacitor in the signal path. But make sure your source/pre-amp does not have dc ouptut of my charlize 2 will smoke. It has about 10w.  
 
Instead of going through all the huzzle of taking out the saba tweeters and in the siemens, the best way to "taste" them is just to let them sit on the top for a quick try.
Welborne
10-07-12
16:21:46
回覆 (1065): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Oh Great ! I will come "alone" later.  
 
Besides, tried some alternative method on the Saba Reso such as Tube OTL headphone amp. , sound creamy .... but the best is mating with the Pass Zen 10W Class A amp..  
 
Vash
10-07-12
15:41:05
回覆 (1064): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
vash,  
 
I got the siemens tweeters with me at windsor house already. So if you want to pick up to try, just drop by my shop and ask for them. I will put a sticker on the bag. Will be busy these two days so won't be able to come over.  
 
Use with care (meaning don't play planar decibel level...hahaha) as CFT too wants to try them in his upcoming OB project... :P
Welborne
10-07-12
14:28:05
回覆 (1063): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Welborne,  
 
DY seems has this Radio in his collection warehouse, fully functional.
Vash
10-07-09
15:47:51
回覆 (1062): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Yes, I do believe the tension in the wood matters.  
 
Vash
10-07-09
15:22:32
回覆 (1061): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Vash Well Done !!!  
 
Yes, I had my SABA RESO playing in free space before and it does sound much better.  
 
You need to play the SABA RESO for a few weeks to loosen up the tension in the wood caused when forming the shape. You will fins it will sound much smoother and not as harsh. The SABA drivers will also need some time . BTW _ what caps are you using on the tweeter ? these will take some time to run in. I am using 2.2uF Russian PIO.  
 
Enjoy !!!  
 
I will be back from UK mid next week.
daiwok
10-07-09
14:39:10
回覆 (1060): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
haha..drking.......haha :)
Welborne
10-07-09
14:10:32
回覆 (1059): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
SABA made the best tube radio console on earth in human history. Period.  
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in that case, i'm sure SABA is Chinese Made.
drwkng
10-07-09
13:49:57