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回覆 (1059): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Thanks your advise Welborne. I will make sure Vash read this!!
ken1967
10-07-09
13:21:34
回覆 (1058): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
some info about saba.  
 
SABA made the best tube radio console on earth in human history. Period.  
 
Their flagship model is Freiburg, best of the best. Most saba green/10" coaxial black came from these.  
 
Some connosieurs told me the basic model of saba radio were all much better and more expensive than the flaship from Siemens/Telefunken/Grundig
http://www.lampizator.eu/SPEAKERS/ALNICO/sabaguide.html
Welborne
10-07-09
13:08:03
回覆 (1057): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
oh Vash and Ken,  
 
One more advice for you about using the SABA green (especially the tweeter). These are originally radio console speakers, they worked together with most commonly el84 single ended powered radio tuner/amp inside the same wooden box. Power handling is around 2w to 5w. They are definitely not rock speakers for big orchestra. Many people "burned" the voicecoils by playing deep bass through them forgettng where they orignally came from.I sold one pair of 10" flagship coaxial to a guy 2 years ago who liked it so much that he tried to get more bass out of them with his kt88 push pull amp. He told me about 6 months ago that his saba went to heaven already.  
 
The tweeters are especially fragile as they don't have any of those modern "fluid cooling" system for the voicecoil. They can die pretty soon, I have experienced with a few paiis of similar tweeters startng to make rattling noise and "zing zing" ringing distortion on piano because the previous owner drove them too hard.  
 
Those SABA green are real treasures though they may be cheap. Pamper them with your love and care. :P  
 
Welborne
10-07-09
12:57:07
回覆 (1056): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
With the help from good looking Ken, we found out the latest reference and good sound from the Saba Reso is playing back Schumann piano solo and Britten Noye's Flydde CD.  
 
Vash
10-07-09
00:50:09
回覆 (1055): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
OH....there maybe a bit mis-understanding.  
 
I use it to compare with my Maggie. If Maggie is normal, Saba is just a bit dark.  
 
If Saba is normal, then Maggie is a bit bright owing to the character of Quasi ribbon ?  
 
Should not related to glue nor finishing oil.....  
 
^___~  
Vash
10-07-09
00:47:13
回覆 (1054): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Daiwok use "emfi" from France while I am using "Bostik" from England......  
 
........ now got a little bit dark on mid-high  
 
____________________________________________  
 
Is this something to deal with the glue that you use? It sounds like your Saba Reso is quite UK-sounding now ^___*.  
icefox
10-07-09
00:45:26
回覆 (1054): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
I remember dr.King and mdlover once emphasis this in the past..... it's expensive.
http://www.ennemoser.com/speakers.html
Vash
10-07-09
00:45:24
回覆 (1053): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
I suspect it should be some form of preservative they use for the making of the very tasty Parma ham !!! :P  
_____________________________________________________  
"Mineral preservatives in the wood of Stradivari and Guarneri.  
 
Nagyvary J, Guillemette RN, Spiegelman CH.  
 
Department of Biochemistry and Biophysics, Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas, USA. [email protected]  
Abstract  
 
Following the futile efforts of generations to reach the high standard of excellence achieved by the luthiers in Cremona, Italy, by variations of design and plate tuning, current interest is being focused on differences in material properties. The long-standing question whether the wood of Stradivari and Guarneri were treated with wood preservative materials could be answered only by the examination of wood specimens from the precious antique instruments. In a recent communication (Nature, 2006), we reported about the degradation of the wood polymers in instruments of Stradivari and Guarneri, which could be explained only by chemical manipulations, possibly by preservatives. The aim of the current work was to identify the minerals from the small samples of the maple wood which were available to us from the antique instruments. The ashes of wood from one violin and one cello by Stradivari, two violins by Guarneri, one viola by H. Jay, one violin by Gand-Bernardel were analyzed and compared with a variety of commercial tone woods. The methods of analysis were the following: back-scattered electron imaging, X-ray fluorescence maps for individual elements, wave-length dispersive spectroscopy, energy dispersive X-ray spectroscopy and quantitative microprobe analysis. All four Cremonese instruments showed the unmistakable signs of chemical treatments in the form of chemicals which are not present in natural woods, such as BaSO4, CaF2, borate, and ZrSiO4. In addition to these, there were also changes in the common wood minerals. Statistical evaluation of 12 minerals by discriminant analysis revealed: a. a difference among all four Cremona instruments, b. the difference of the Cremonese instruments from the French and English antiques, and c. only the Cremonese instruments differed from all commercial woods. These findings may provide the answer why all attempts to recreate the Stradivarius from natural wood have failed. There are many obvious implications with regard to how the green tone wood should be treated, which chould lead to changes in the practice of violin-making. This research should inspire others to analyze more antique violins for their chemical contents."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19158950
icefox
10-07-09
00:33:14
回覆 (1052): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Violin use C37 .............  
________  
 
Are you sure? May be you should watch this......  
 
 
 
icefox
10-07-09
00:14:25
回覆 (1051): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Violin use C37 .............
Vash
10-07-09
00:06:00
回覆 (1050): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Why BEFORE ?  
 
___________  
 
Probably not necessary after I watch this.  
 
icefox
10-07-09
00:04:39
回覆 (1049): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Welborne,  
 
I will try with my low power OTL headphone amp. first.  
 
Waiting for your Siemens soon.....  
 
^++++++^  
 
Vash
10-07-08
23:55:39
回覆 (1048): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
they have same cone diameter as the saba 10cm, no a direct plug in is possible
Welborne
10-07-08
23:48:08
回覆 (1047): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
When Vash sms me around 6pm last night about the chance to hear his saba reso, I had to drop all my work on hand and flew to his place in no time.  
 
The reso sounds dynamic, and i have never expected saba green can sound this dynamic in such a flimsy looking cabinet...  
 
But, my two humble opinion:  
 
1) may be time for Vash to start exploring into flea power amplification such as 2a3/300b or even 45 tubes single end amp. This will make the sound more palpable. I still think Vash's 100w 6550 pushpull is a better match for his maggie 1.7 than the feeble saba alnico.  
 
2) saba green tweeter is never the one I like. i have heard a lot of those paper tweeters and i still have about 15 different pairs lying around. No need to be too superstitious about a "all saba" combo. Many telefunken radio consoles use isopphon/siemens tweeters to. I suggested the cheap (usd39 a pair ex shipping) Siemens lsp28a.  
 
Overall I was impressed. I knew of Saba Reso almost about 7 years ago, but never thought i would have the chance to listen to one set up here in Hong kong. thanks Vash for the hospitality!!
http://cgi.ebay.com.hk/2-Klangfilm-Siemens-4-Tweeters-ALNICO-LSP28a-28a-VAC-/270588012543
Welborne
10-07-08
23:46:05
回覆 (1047): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Why BEFORE ?  
 
As there are some 'sand and file' works to do after the assembly......
Vash
10-07-08
23:40:12
回覆 (1046): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
the final stage is looking for Danish Oil  
________________________________  
 
Kris,  
 
I hope you pick up this thread. Know that you are wood expert, if possible, do you think it's better to apply the Danish Oil to the wood pieces BEFORE assembly?  
 
After assembly, another final retouch for cosmetic?
icefox
10-07-08
23:27:20
回覆 (1046): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
I got impressed when I first audited to this in daiwok's den.  
 
How impressive ?  
 
Playing Starker Cello suite and we feel it like a real Cello vibrating in our room.  
Vash
10-07-08
23:25:44
回覆 (1045): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
How impressive!!!
ackcheng
10-07-08
23:08:47
回覆 (1045): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
How impressive!!!
ackcheng
10-07-08
23:08:45
回覆 (1044): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
I look forward to oozz having his Lowther Reso up and running, he told me that he has some exotic DHT flea-power amp to service the Lowther.
icefox
10-07-08
22:54:55
回覆 (1043): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Welborne,  
 
Did you have a chance auditioning diawok's Saba? I was impressed every time I have a chance auditioning it. I really think it smokes the Ocellia on the bass department.  
 
icefox
10-07-08
22:48:53
回覆 (1043): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Dear ackcheng,  
 
See how the magic hands re-touch this Lenco....
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=57.0
Vash
10-07-08
22:47:17
回覆 (1042): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
not easy to DIY wood plinth!
ackcheng
10-07-08
22:39:43
回覆 (1042): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
No, I bought it myself. Brand is 'Irwin' from Germany, around HKD2xx each.
Vash
10-07-08
22:37:46
回覆 (1041): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
BTW, does the blue-yellow clamps come with the kit?
icefox
10-07-08
22:18:38
回覆 (1040): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Or ask the good looking ken to find me some C37 !!?  
 
^0^
Vash
10-07-08
22:14:31
回覆 (1039): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Bingo, mine is 85% finished, the final stage is looking for Danish Oil.
Vash
10-07-08
22:12:47
回覆 (1038): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
now got a little bit dark on mid-high  
_________________________________  
 
You might need that Magic Touch by the Magic Hands (MH), I believe MH applied some magic oil on the wood surface too.
icefox
10-07-08
22:11:22
回覆 (1037): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Dear icefox,  
 
My Saba Reso is strange, not the same as you heard at daiwok's den....it's speedy, shocking dynamic but elastic bass.......now got a little bit dark on mid-high, hope it will get improved after days of run-in.  
 
Vash
10-07-08
22:06:12
回覆 (1036): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
>>>Any tricks to share?  
 
It is just a kit, but needs space to build. Don't forget to use particular wood glue. Daiwok use "emfi" from France while I am using "Bostik" from England.  
 
Vash
10-07-08
22:00:45
回覆 (1035): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Yes, it belongs to one of daiwok's 'slate' project. This is Lenco PTP on slate plinth while mine is PTP on wood plinth.  
 
Photobucket
Vash
10-07-08
21:57:32
回覆 (1035): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Vash, cool banana! Do you find any major difficulties in assembling the kit? Any tricks to share? I look forward to having mine worked on.  
icefox
10-07-08
21:57:00
回覆 (1034): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
Vash hing  
 
Impressive work! You need to upgrade your house later!!  
 
I have also stumble on to this DIY turntable, I think the work belongs to one of the masters here! Truely impressive!  
 
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=3287.0  
 
 
ackcheng
10-07-08
21:53:20
回覆 (1033): One of my recent project, the Saba Reso !
I'd describe this is my year of daiwok, nothing related to David Wong but I was being very "dai wok" (大鑊) on my stuffs.....changes of TT, amps., Maggie, etc.  
 
Now, I have this build for the good looking Ken. Another pair is coming soon...  
 
The packages, two set of kits from Germany directly.  
 
Photobucket  
 
Kit's content  
 
Photobucket  
 
Openings for different brands of speaker unit  
 
Photobucket  
 
Wood works at my home, with the help of my daughter on applying wood glue.  
 
Photobucket  
 
Waiting for glue to set  
 
Photobucket  
 
Some clamps and jig applied  
 
Photobucket  
 
In progression no matter day or night  
 
Photobucket  
 
Glue setting got reduced to around 12 hrs.  
 
Photobucket  
 
Saba Units installed  
 
Photobucket  
 
Speaker terminals  
 
Photobucket  
 
85% finished  
 
Photobucket  
 
Compare the height to Maggie 1.7  
 
Photobucket  
 
Sound test !!  
 
Photobucket  
 
With Welborne and good looking Ken sit in for an audition, we found it sounds the best with small power SE amp., part with a Pass Zen 10W class A, it is a steal !  
 
Mr. daiwok, I have to say, it sounds better when it placed far away from the rear wall.....  
 
 
^0^  
 
 
 
 
 
Vash
10-07-08
21:44:34
回覆 (1032): New DMM from Fluke featuring remote display unit !!
Vash
10-07-02
02:49:47
回覆 (1031): 湯瑪士的第二次
So, precisely, what would you like to see?  
----------  
repeat the test with low frequency that's all. SE wtih good low frequency response is not easy. you probably need to test with higer power output as well for low frequency.
drwkng
10-06-24
21:08:48
回覆 (1031): 湯瑪士的第二次
"""""i think it's still good enough for relative measurement."""""  
 
Actually that was what I believe we were doing.  
 
Let's do it with another instrument next time. Our ears.  
 
Thanks again, Albert.
ThomasC2
10-06-24
21:00:13
回覆 (1030): 湯瑪士的第二次
if you really want to do everything that king would like to see, i'm afraid you have to spend some real dollars on instrumentation. :-P  
 
and please excuse my bad that i have forgotten to measure the noise floor of our setup and now we can't draw any useful comment about distortion.  
 
the distortion in the chain includes your oscillator, all tube gain stages, opt and the a/d convert of the measurement setup. all these will add up to your final THD.  
 
the test setup is not perfect, i only brought my no-so-decent portable setup but then i think it's still good enough for relative measurement.  
 
let's do it again when you have wounded your next new opt.
mdlover
10-06-24
13:00:08
回覆 (1029): 湯瑪士的第二次
 
 
""""have you measured the dynamic operating conditions to ensure the reflected impedance are all in the same ball park.""""  
 
I'm afraid not. We measured only everything behind the opt.  
 
"""""well.. the next thing would be to measure the low end response^-^""""  
 
Yes sir. So, precisely, what would you like to see?
ThomasC2
10-06-24
11:15:00
回覆 (1028): 湯瑪士的第二次
there are not much details about the haslingaudio amp (or the Thai guy's setup). Mine has a rather high V gain (so that i always do not need extra gain from a pre amp). If i reduce the gain of my amp and rely more on the voltage provided by the sig gen, i believe the overall distortion of my amp can be significantly lowered.
ThomasC2
10-06-23
13:21:37