Idler Wheel Turntables |
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主旨寄件者更新日期
回覆 (1386): I loitered up and downTottenham Court Road
How come I did not see you in the XXX shops and Paul Raymond show?  
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My first opera / show was "Elektra" and a wet t-shirt contest in one of the night club in Birkenhead/Liverpool, I think it was 1982.  
 
bobui
11-06-23
17:15:20
回覆 (1385): I loitered up and downTottenham Court Road
Limage and Bobui,  
 
How come I did not see you in the XXX shops and Paul Raymond show?  
 
The first time musical performance in my life, "Evita" in London. Five quids student fare, great musical I would never forget in my life. Couldn't remember who the lead actor and actress were. Definitely not Sarah Brightman or Elain Page.
dkyyu
11-06-23
17:05:46
回覆 (1387): High-end
I wouldn't suggest E chai's studio comes close to the condition of a high-end store as he would never be able to meet the requirement of "single speaker demonstration room".  
 
dkyyu
11-06-23
16:56:07
回覆 (1386): T-T in 80s in UK
UK high end was in the 60's ! all that stuff ended up at Ginger's and E's place ^o^  
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E's place is fast becoming a warehouse and demo room for brits stuffs. E, would you care to start consider offering people drinks and make them to fill in a form when they come. I can supply the Linn LP12 and I suppose you can ask diawok for an Alphason!
bobui
11-06-23
16:48:37
回覆 (1386): T-T in 80s in UK
UK high end was in the 60's ! all that stuff ended up at Ginger's and E's place ^o^
daiwok
11-06-23
16:24:38
回覆 (1385): T-T in 80s in UK
 
To be honest, there were nothing like high end audio in London even in the good old days. It was a far cry from what you could have in New York or Chicago, not to mention Akihabara, Tokyo.  
 
Britain was and still is miserably backward!  
 
limage
11-06-23
15:29:15
回覆 (1384): T-T in 80s in UK
I loitered up and downTottenham Court Road  
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Hey folks, those were the old days. My typo earlier, should be KJ West in London, not K West. Oh, Graham Hi Fi, a real hi-end retailer I wouldnt even dare to walk in alone. Oh, Logic, glad to hear dkyyu mentioned it, a real killer. I last saw one on ebay over a year ago., not very good condition. Suppose to be better than the Linn but fade out soon than Systemdek and the Source.  
 
One thing cannot deny about the Linn is that almost all other TTs tried hard to be better in the 80 to 90s.  
 
bobui
11-06-23
15:00:39
回覆 (1383): T-T in 80s in UK
 
I loitered up and downTottenham Court Road too to get my first Formula 4 tonearm, listened to the original Spendors (mine was made by Radio People), looking in vain for the IMF speaker which had me enthralled and snatched whatever LPs I could carry from HMV shop.  
 
^__^  
 
limage
11-06-23
14:34:01
回覆 (1382): T-T in 80s in UK
In 80s, I was told there are 3 top notch T-T in the UK market, namely LP12, Pink Trinagle and Logic. Nottingham, Roksan and Goldmund were not existed at that time. Systemdek, Rega Planar 3 and Heybrook were the hot stuff but I went for the different design, a Logic's entry level model. A decent sounding machine, I was fully satisfied with the little Logic until I heard the LP12 in Graham hifi and Pink Triangle in a local shop.  
 
Dr King and our Dr Hon told me all gone today. I am not certain whether Graham hifi can still survive yet, but I know there are nice people. They knew i was a poor student and never gave me any hard sales pressure.  
 
Perhaps, King, Hon and mda can tell us more.
dkyyu
11-06-23
14:01:13
回覆 (1381): Immedia RPM2
In the old days in England, top-end manufacturers (Linn and Naim were the top notches in the old days) would disqualify your dealerships if you could not provide a single speaker demonstration room for audition.  
 
Shoppers were more serious in the old days. I used to hang around a lot in Tottenham Court road where my college premise is just round the corner near to Euston station. I spent most of the leisure hours there where I first heard my beloved QUAD ESL63 asking GBP2300, I have to wait till yr 2009 to own my first 63. I went to Graham hifi (probably the most famous one in London) shop where I first heard the LP12 and NAIT driving LS3/5s speaker and learnt some tricks to set up the LP12 in a proper manner. I once had an opportunity to attend a product launch function demonstrating their Linn EKOS vs against Naim ARO in front of a group of big spenders (not me, I served as a pineapple chicken) under the single ceiling.  
 
Those were the days, my friends.
dkyyu
11-06-23
13:51:14
回覆 (1380): Immedia RPM2
Yeah, sure, set up probably, hours of fine tune and it helps me a lot if I understand the underlying principal on how something works, hence their good and bad, the pros and cons. What to avoid and what not!  
 
And i do like to know a bit on what I pay for lor. I mean take Linn for example: Let just say the design is good but when you track the price increase in the last 10 yrs as compare to the improvement it has been, Not easy to justify for some!  
 
bobui
11-06-23
11:51:22
回覆 (1379): Immedia RPM2
Talking of Fashion ..... what do you prefer ?  
 
 
Golden sound ?  
 
Photobucket  
 
Crystal Clear ?  
 
Photobucket  
 
or Raging Red ?  
 
Photobucket
daiwok
11-06-23
10:45:28
回覆 (1378): Immedia RPM2
 
>In those days in Europe, nearly all high end turntables were suspended.<  
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Hi end TTs, like fashion designs, have different hypes for different era. In the mid to late 70’s, it was about direct drive and heavy belt drive. In the 80’s and early 90’s, the hype was suspended belt drive. Since the resurrection of LP in the early 2000’s, most hi end designs were heavy, non-suspended belt drives. In the past few years, direct drives and even idler drives had created quite a stir!  
 
 
>I have no preference in either school as I find both would sound as good if sufficient care is exercised in their respective setup.<  
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Different TT designs, especially the different drive systems, have their different strengths and weaknesses. However, similar to tubes and SS electronics, TT designs have started to converge! Belt drive TTs are using high torque motors, direct drive TTs are using heavy platters, idler TTs are using heavy plinths!  
 
thekong
11-06-23
10:26:21
回覆 (1377): Immedia RPM2
The difference we hear therefore is likely to be a difference in the amount of care spent during the process of installation.  
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I think turntables are very vulnerable to changes to the mechanics. I can say, that the tuning of belts, motors suspension etc never mind lubrication oil, motor alignment, servicing of motors bearings etc make a dramatic change on what we hear through our precious cartridge. In the past people have discharged many presentable turntables due to their appearance and age having not considered fundamentally what makes them work properly. A properly serviced turntable is night and day compared to one that has been neglected over the years.
daiwok
11-06-23
10:05:16
回覆 (1376): Immedia RPM2
 
Two school of thoughts  
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I have no preference in either school as I find both would sound as good if sufficient care is exercised in their respective setup. The difference we hear therefore is likely to be a difference in the amount of care spent during the process of installation.  
 
limage
11-06-22
23:08:58
回覆 (1375): Immedia RPM2
The Alphason has a cast Iron chassis  
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And I can remember well that this is one of the first and most popular Hi Fi LP in 80s/90s from Sheffied Lab that my brother in law brought to the Alphason demo. I think most people nowsdays prefer the drum and track or the J Horward.
bobui
11-06-22
18:42:38
回覆 (1374): Immedia RPM2
The Alphason has a cast Iron chassis  
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I first heard Alphason on demo at K-West London with my brother in law some 20 yrs ago. The demo started with an Linn LP12, Asaka cartridge and then an Alphason which i had no idea of the model at the time with HR100-S and Asaka cartidge. The difference, well as you can guess, no comparsion. More stable, weight and quiet background. There was no linn lingo, may be vahalla underneath.  
 
I remember well simply because in the old days, you have to make appointment for demo and the shop would ask you what current set up you have. The first thing they need you to do when arrrived is to fill in a form, then a drink and ask if you have brought along your reference CDs or LPs. At the time my brother in law had Tannoy D700 and the shop would not set up anything less than that in terms of size and grade. But at least a booking a week before.  
 
In those days in Europe, nearly all high end turntables were suspended. The rega, most Japanese and hard supended Dual were examples of low end.  
 
 
You can almost guss why i like suspended turntables
bobui
11-06-22
18:07:27
回覆 (1373): Immedia RPM2
The Alphason has a cast Iron chassis
daiwok
11-06-22
17:29:13
回覆 (1372): Immedia RPM2
I suppose you just have to pick the one that sounds best to your ears! :-)  
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last week including sat, sun were like hell to me at work. How yours like coming?  
 
As said, u can pick up the tubes from me first.
bobui
11-06-22
17:17:09
回覆 (1371): Immedia RPM2
>Two school of thoughts<  
>There is a fourth one Roksan has emerged in the orginal design, the spindler. <  
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Yes, there are many schools of thoughts when it comes to designing turntables, and that’s why we see them in all shapes, sizes and materials used. While Roksan, and some others, try to isolate the LP from the platter/bearing as much as possible, others employ clamps and even vacuum to couple them as tight as possible!  
 
I suppose you just have to pick the one that sounds best to your ears! :-)  
 
 
>Check out your GEC KT88s is all you will get. OK?<  
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That is certainly good enough for me! :-)  
 
 
thekong
11-06-22
17:09:07
回覆 (1370): Immedia RPM2
I really need to check out the Alphason!  
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Check out your GEC KT88s is all you will get. OK?
bobui
11-06-22
16:55:24
回覆 (1369): Immedia RPM2
>its suspended but weighs a tonne !<  
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Two school of thoughts, the heavy sub-chassis such as Source, Alphason and even the Heybrook with die cast alloy sub. Linn, Ariston kind of regard asthe light sub-chassis.  
 
What ever the weight or mass of the sub-chassis, the idea of a suspended sub is not really about keeping vibration from external force. Linn even suggested that to keep external vibration out from the wooden floor of the average English home, the best is to use wall mount rather than just rely on the spring.  
 
I read an article lon gtime ago from I think it was Verdier. The argument for suspension type of turntable is the try to keep the three big shaky elments FAR APART and not AFFECTING EACH OTHER in LP playback.  
First is the motor, second is the cartridge (yes, more so with MC when sound is reproduce from vibration) and third is isolation from anthing outside of the turntable. There is a fourth one Roksan has emerged in the orginal design, the spindler.  
 
Its not any single one of vibration, its the unwanted effect when they all exist and get transmitted to the reading on the groove.
bobui
11-06-22
16:49:15
回覆 (1368): Immedia RPM2
 
>it makes toast out of the Linn LP12 <  
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I don't think that is something hard to acheive ;-)  
 
 
 
>its suspended but weighs a tonne !<  
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Are you talking about the sub-chassis, or the whole table? If the former, I also have a SOTA Star Sapphire that has a relatively heavy sub-chassis, but still it doesn't sound too good to me!  
 
I really need to check out the Alphason!  
 
 
thekong
11-06-22
16:07:27
回覆 (1367): Immedia RPM2
Evil Kong,  
 
I think you need to check out the Alphason ..... it makes toast out of the Linn LP12 and the rest, its suspended but weighs a tonne !
daiwok
11-06-22
15:44:54
回覆 (1366): Immedia RPM2
Bobui,  
 
I have always found non-suspended tables sounding more stable than their suspended counterparts. Many audiophiles talked about suspended tables, most notably the Linn, having PRaT, but I really couldn’t understand how could that be!  
 
On nearly all suspended tables, the motor are fixed to the plinth, while the platter and arm are mounted on the sub-chassis, which is then suspended by springs or o-rings, as in the case of the SME. If there is any vibration that set the sub-chassis into motion, the distance between the platter/bearing and the motor spindle will change (albeit only very slightly), thus affecting the belt tension and ultimately the platter speed.  
 
Adding to the problem is that soft tables usually use stretchy belts, which would expand and contract when they enter and exit the motor pulleys due to the pulling force. This would affect the platter speed by itself, and I would think this force could also excite the sub-chassis, and further upset the platter speed. I wonder whether this constant changing speed, which should be very minor of course, could made the sound more exciting, and contribute to what the advocates called PRaT!  
 
 
thekong
11-06-22
15:29:42
回覆 (1365): Immedia RPM2
Will try and dig it out this weekend and set it up ^__^  
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Kong is not interested, thats good to know and I have something Kong is interested. I have something coming you may be intrested................  
 
bobui
11-06-22
15:17:50
回覆 (1364): Immedia RPM2
Dont even think about it, its mine and I have the cash ready for pick up now.  
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Will try and dig it out this weekend and set it up ^__^
daiwok
11-06-22
14:28:40
回覆 (1363): Immedia RPM2
Don’t worry; suspended turntables are not my cup of tea! :-)  
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Ah, thats interesting, please let me know your thoughts or experience on this topic. Its not the first time i heard or read similar statement and your story or rationale to me would be a good starting point for a beer or more.
bobui
11-06-22
14:22:49
回覆 (1362): Immedia RPM2
 
>Dont even think about it, its mine and I have the cash ready for pick up now.<  
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Don’t worry; suspended turntables are not my cup of tea! :-)  
 
thekong
11-06-22
14:13:15
回覆 (1361): Immedia RPM2
With the HR100S arm?!!!! :-O  
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I dont know but I have met some very knowledgeable, generous and experienced audio big brothers here with many top notch UK made turntables. And of course, the first person came to my mind is the owner of several Alphason Sonatassssss.  
 
Dont even think about it, its mine and I have the cash ready for pick up now.
bobui
11-06-22
14:09:34
回覆 (1360): Immedia RPM2
 
>JUST 10% of the Immedia price.<  
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With the HR100S arm?!!!! :-O  
 
thekong
11-06-22
13:58:43
回覆 (1359): Immedia RPM2
Kong,  
 
Long time no talk. How are u? Immedia, no la, i can get same performance at 10% of the price from a champagne colour Alphason Sonata lor.  
 
U see, JUST 10% of the Immedia price. Thats HOW GOOD FRIEND treat me. I must go and fetch what is mine soon.
bobui
11-06-22
13:52:44
回覆 (1358): Immedia RPM2
Bobui,  
 
This is another chance for you. Immedia RPM2 with the upgrade aluminum base and Phantom arm. Reasonable price and in Hong Kong!!!!  
 
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1313762483&/Immedia-RPM-2-Deluxe-turntable
thekong
11-06-22
12:41:26
回覆 (1343): Michael Fremer
I fell asleep just listening ...... but kind of nice to see this side of Fremer ... seems to be a guy who puts music first before the high end aristocracy
daiwok
11-06-18
14:37:25
回覆 (1342): Michael Fremer
 
It's very long, daiwok but I managed to stop at the video part.  
Like that blind-test.  
evp1312
11-06-18
12:53:52
回覆 (1341): Michael Fremer
http://twit.cachefly.net/odtv/0712-htg26.mp4
daiwok
11-06-18
12:02:56
回覆 (1340): Month of the Garrard
Amazing, that "refinished" OIL bearing Garrard I post a while ago ended the bid at 2,500 UKP!!! @[email protected]!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=190540379306&si=Ov5gYjJaugJ4PYnhOHVG5gYupu0%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
icefox
11-06-14
17:55:36
回覆 (1367): US$650,0000 Turntable
Master Limage,  
 
When you are ready ...... I will bring my slate SP10 over with the Schick arm as well ^__*
daiwok
11-06-14
17:11:44
回覆 (1366): US$650,0000 Turntable
 
 
I still love this most……….. at less than 1/2 % of that 650,000 bucks US.  
 
 
limage
11-06-14
16:49:19
回覆 (1365): US$650,0000 Turntable
Show Time?
bobui
11-06-14
16:40:29