Idler Wheel Turntables |
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回覆 (1302): 粉红色的頭 - Part II
That is right, the cantilever is skewed and not the tonearm for alignment !
daiwok
11-05-23
12:59:22
回覆 (1301): 粉红色的頭 - Part II
icefox - when are we going to GROUPON on this beautiful cartridge ?
daiwok
11-05-23
12:58:21
回覆 (1300): 粉红色的頭 - Part II
While some cartridges are boasting 12 magnets or more, this cartridge just boasts one big fxxk off magnet !  
 
daiwok
11-05-23
12:49:31
回覆 (1299): 粉红色的頭 - Part II
The Pierre Clement H4 is sometimes found on Ebay which is a domestic TT and of course they are also idler like the bigger broadcasting counter parts
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=592.0
daiwok
11-05-23
12:48:20
回覆 (1298): 粉红色的頭 - Part II
朋友, I would certainly consider one, but a slightly more modern version would be the Pierre Clement C TT which was used in broadcasting  
 
Photobucket  
 
As you can see, the motor is much more serious as well as the phono stage built in  
 
Photobucket  
 
daiwok
11-05-23
12:43:47
回覆 (1297): 粉红色的頭 - Part II
daiwok,  
 
This is for your consideration.
icefox
11-05-22
20:21:20
回覆 (1296): PRELUDE - to what ?
Sorry guys for my moan but yesterday I made the effort to visit Prelude the new CD and LP shop in TST Miramar Shopping mall.  
 
The shop itself is ok, the software available is not huge compared to the Shun Cheong in Mong Kok, may be they are still transferring some goods over, I don't know.  
 
However I had one of the worst customer experience in Hi Fi. Do I blame the shop owners ? or do I blame poor staffing ? but surely I cannot be blaming myself ?  
 
I feel it is necessary not to bitch about the shop staff but at least report to others about my honest experience which did leave a rather bitter taste and hence my immediate email back to Shun Cheong who I get regular members news letters from ....... yet I am now not a member no more ! and here is what I had to say ........  
 
I was at prelude today taking my time to buy some records hoping to be a life long member. Now I was I informed that my membership at was expired 2 months ago which I had no idea about nor was I informed before hand. Not an issue as I expect that I could renew at prelude. But no ! I must go to Mong Kok shun CHEONG ! Then come back to prelude ! Honestly speaking what happen to the customer ? This inconvenience only says one thing to me. I am a nobody ! After 20 years in vinyl a customer who has been loyal for almost 15 years I have to say with sad regret I did not renew membership or joined prelude and decided not to make a purchase ! I doubt I will ever buy again from you people for such disrespect and inconvenienced caused !
daiwok
11-05-15
10:31:27
回覆 (1295): Garrard of the Month
 
 
>but the problem is it won't stay up for long. kong like it nake!<  
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If you have some good things, why hide them!  
 
thekong
11-05-12
15:39:02
回覆 (1294): Garrard of the Month
Can match Kong's Apogees ^__^  
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Red undie are typically good looking.... but the problem is it won't stay up for long. kong like it nake!
icefox
11-05-12
14:09:11
回覆 (1293): Garrard of the Month
Can match Kong's Apogees ^__^
daiwok
11-05-12
13:29:42
回覆 (1292): Garrard of the Month
This is cute!
icefox
11-05-12
13:13:32
回覆 (1291): Garrard of the Month
http://cgi.ebay.com/Garrard-301-custom-made-plinth-rek-o-kut-sme-3009-/120721907929?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Turntables&hash=item1c1b9620d9#ht_708wt_1141
daiwok
11-05-12
13:10:36
回覆 (1290): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
Icefox, I have seen a pair on ebay about 8 months back. lovely!  
 
You know what I really think. Lowther was innovative and clever design some 50 to 60 years ago. Machnical crossover, wow! But since then, "Nothing". absolutely zero research, zero improvement in materials, poorly made ugly looking MDF cabinets, no new cabinet design and zero marketing. They dont even try! Many small manufacturers/designers have tried to implement Lowther drive units into their cabinet design. Not always receive good response from users but at least, they try and experiment, right?  
 
Can't Lowther just collect old cabinets and offer rebuild or refurbish. I mean how hard it can be. Much like the youtube link you've uploaded.  
 
Give me a modern speaker that is high sensitivity, fairly flat frequency reponse, no complex cross over. I surely would save enough money to give it a try. Oh, no 4 feet wide horns, please. Sorry, I just want home audio, not theater audio or factory audio.
bobui
11-05-09
15:26:33
回覆 (1289): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
bobui, those Lowther that you play are just way too chicken!!! You should think about this to be considered serious!!!  
 
 
 
We should feel proud this is indeed a cabinet reproduced by Radio People!!!
icefox
11-05-09
14:44:05
回覆 (1288): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
Just got back home. Again, I am very drunk! Hey, sound good to me, Morch DP6, sure one of my most loved arm. My university day was to mate the PT with Helius and thats why I am keeping one. I mean, what do I know anyway.  
 
Hey, you know what? One of the many arms I love to own as well as to test drive is the Alphason HR100s. You have one? Or tried in the past.  
 
Again and again, I must post some photos of my next project on a Tannoy pre-amp. I can almost certain it's so unusual that not many have seen before. Love to share.  
bobui
11-05-07
01:30:11
回覆 (1287): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
Bobui, you have the PT1. I sold my Anniversary to a Malaysia guy and still have the PT Too which I owned since my university days. Both the Pink Triangles had the SME V on them. The best arm I heard on the Pink was with Daiwok's Moerch DP6.
scallywag
11-05-06
21:52:40
回覆 (1286): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
God, I am hungry la. Anyway, shall we set something up next week? Long time no see you guys.
bobui
11-05-06
18:10:28
回覆 (1285): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
chicken porridge or curry is also ok with me :-)  
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those things are also rare .......my kitchen might have to close down due to the rise in temperature ........normally when I am inside a sauna I only have a small white face towel and nothing else ! @[email protected]
daiwok
11-05-06
17:05:20
回覆 (1284): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
 
 
>as you heard last night, crispy roast pork is not something you can have all the time <  
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Well, if not roast pork, chicken porridge or curry is also ok with me :-)  
 
thekong
11-05-06
16:56:23
回覆 (1283): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
By the way, what if i rewire the SME V? Any suggestions? The orginal internal wire has no less than 6 thousands something joins. It doesnt sound nice to me with such small signal crossing 6 thousands something joins. Right?
bobui
11-05-06
16:48:00
回覆 (1282): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
bobui,  
 
Many thanks ..... I am a simple man so my desires are very simple as I can satisfy myself very easily in my own home ......  
 
Evil Kong - as you heard last night, crispy roast pork is not something you can have all the time ..... no matter how friendly you are or even how long you have known me ...... there are still scores of those "friends" suffering .......
daiwok
11-05-06
16:34:27
回覆 (1281): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
Diawok, anything you want! Just name it.  
 
Champagne?  
 
bobui
11-05-06
16:29:00
回覆 (1280): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
 
>Is wine ok or you prefer whisky. Lamb of beef? Name it and I'll do my best. <  
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Bobui, apparently you don't know diawok very well. While wine and whisky are fine, instead of serving him lamb or beef, you should ask him to serve (espcially roast pock) :-)  
 
 
thekong
11-05-06
16:09:18
回覆 (1279): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
thekong, absolutely, SMEV is "love & hate" all in one for me. You know what, I am going to give it a go on my Morch DP6 this weekend to test if I can hear difference in sound with heavier and lighter counterweights forward to the bearing and further back. Perhaps a gathering at my place, finally.  
 
But, first of all, I need to treat Diawok and icefox nice first. You know what I mean! Daiwok. Is wine ok or you prefer whisky. Lamb of beef? Name it and I'll do my best.  
 
scallywag, I believe mine is the PT Too. A suspended version with a triangle shape black colour metal swtich on the front left hand top plate. A small external supply in plastic case. Please do share your experience with the PT.
bobui
11-05-06
15:52:20
回覆 (1278): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
Daiwok, beer on me la! You are good, very good, very very good indeed. Oh, beer always come with good food as well.  
bobui
11-05-06
15:37:18
回覆 (1278): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
 
>I've learned that Graham and SME also speak of the same theory as reed. I just thought that perhaps in general, counter weight closer to the bearing/pivot may just be ideal in most circumstances if not all. <  
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I believe those are just some general guidelines for people just getting into vinyl. Since most of the modern cartridges are medium compliance, most of the current manufactured tonearms (including the current SME and Graham) are also medium mass, so as to fit as many cartridges as possible. Under this background, their theory may apply to a certain extend.  
 
However, if we are using some modern, medium mass, arms with low compliance cartridges like the Denon 103, then the added mass of having lighter counterweight further from the pivot could be very beneficial. Of course we could also add some weight on the headshell, and push the counterweight even further back. People have reported good results doing that to their Rega300/Denon 103 combo.  
 
As for the SME V, it is a funny arm; some swear by it and others just hate it! I think it is certainly less lively than other top arms, like the Graham, Triplanar, or even the FR64S. However, it is very stable, and with easy adjustments. It should be fitted with cartridges that sound really fast, but somewhat lack in body. VDH uses the SME V as the reference when designing cartridges, at least the Colibri, and I can see why they are a good match.  
 
Bobui, please check PM  
 
 
thekong
11-05-06
15:37:15
回覆 (1277): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
bobui,  
 
I don't have your mail but I have your new toys arriving next week !
daiwok
11-05-06
15:09:14
回覆 (1277): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
hi Bobui, which PT model you own? PT Export, TOO or Anniversary?, Chi
scallywag
11-05-06
14:02:45
回覆 (1276): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
Absolutely, the magnesium tapped arm tube in the SME V damped it so much that it make the sound very DIFFERENT. In terms of principal measurement, it may look good or not too bad but when it comes to actual sound, I think I have other choices. Having said that, I'm still keeping a very old one in my drawer.  
 
Its so much fun to experiment LP hardware but I have 4 turntables already. A Wlison Benesch Act Two (yeah, with the orginal carbon/wooden stand), Linn with Syrinx PU2, Pink trianlge with Helius Orion and a home made suspension turntable with Morch DP6, 12". So my next project is to restore a Tannoy valve dual mono preamp. Show you photos this weekend. Its really is one of a kind that were built for studio.
bobui
11-05-06
13:45:25
回覆 (1275): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
I've learned that Graham and SME also speak of the same theory as reed. I just thought that perhaps in general, counter weight closer to the bearing/pivot may just be ideal in most circumstances if not all.  
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That is very true, until you start experimenting yourself and finding the right balance for your cartridge and tonearm match. If you cannot reduce mass to the counterweight, then add mass to the cartridge and see what happens. Its free of charge and if you do not like it, you can always revert back to the original position.  
 
With regards to SME - it depends which SME arm. I find that the 3009 also benefits this, but for the dynamic balanced SME V, I prefer to release the bearing spring - set to zero to free the bearing but this means the counter weight moves much close to the bearing - however, you will hear improvement. Furthermore, if you take off the bearing bridge the sound opens up even more, hard to explain given it is suppose to act with more rigidity. Lastly, the SME V tonearm is one of the worst on the market IMHO
daiwok
11-05-06
09:57:14
回覆 (1274): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
yes, yes yes, i am invited. with beer?
bobui
11-05-05
18:23:58
回覆 (1273): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
 
Bobui, the Reed shown in Diawok’s photos is actually in my den now, but will be returning to its owner in about 2 weeks time. So, if you are interested, you are welcome to visit my den in the mean time!  
 
thekong
11-05-05
18:06:59
回覆 (1272): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
Diawok, I've learned that Graham and SME also speak of the same theory as reed. I just thought that perhaps in general, counter weight closer to the bearing/pivot may just be ideal in most circumstances if not all. I only managed to have the flexibility to change different counter weights to test how it affect shound sound with a very old Syrinx PU2 arm and a Morch UP6. To me, Syrinx is a super open sounding arm and Morch is a very clever and fleixiable design.  
 
I thank you, Limage and thekong for the sharing. Allow me to join the next beer time and with kong is just so much more fun. I have been setting up and building turnatables for a long time and I'm still learning and taking my time to sink in all the knowledge behind.  
 
Nice photos.
bobui
11-05-05
17:54:11
回覆 (1271): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
 
I had been trained to handle cartridges of super high compliances like the ADC 26, XLM and Shure V15 with figures approaching 35 when I had my first encounter with high end cartridges. The rule of thumb then was to move the counter-weight as close to the pivot as practicable. It made tremendous difference, the same way as you find yours now, since those cartridges tracked at an incredible 0.5 gm.  
 
When the last XLM I had was proclaimed dead, I had no way but to get over to the moving coils and even so, I tend to choose cartridges with higher compliance because they do track better and hence less tear and wear to my collection of LPs.  
 
When we come to cartridges of medium compliance like the Ortofon A90 for example, arm mass does not matter that much and the choices of tonearm will be considerably enlarged.  
 
limage
11-05-05
16:56:15
回覆 (1270): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
BTW bobui, hope you are soba now ^__*  
 
We are talking about increasing inertia and effectively increasing effective mass of the arm to suite certain cartridges which perform better with heavier mass tonearms.....  
 
The Reed Tonearm discussion is talking the opposite so they can sell the fact their arms are lighter because of reduced intertia, however the experiments I did with the Reed arm on counter weights below still stand IMHO
daiwok
11-05-05
14:47:29
回覆 (1269): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
It is the sum of cartridge moment of inertia (Ic) and counterweight moment of inertia (Iw).  
 
It = Ic + Iw  
 
the question is ....is this equation correct ? or is it an assumption.  
 
they are justifying the mass of the tonearm and balanced this by using lighter counter weights and in theory reaching a resonance frequency below 10Hz +/-2 ....... well that depends on the cartridge matching (compliance) and the tonearm itself. Most combinations on the market, ie recommendations between cartridge manufactures and tonearm manufactures will stipulate that their resonance frequency is below 20Hz at the very least so it will not be audible.  
 
However if you have an understanding of wooden arms, they still exhibit colouration of their own kind into the sound.  
 
well I have tried this arm with a MIDAS Denon 14.6g and a Transfiguration Temper W 7.6g.  
 
I find the MIDAS Denon uninvolving, but a smooth relaxed presentation. While the Temper W far better with a genuine swing in the sound. I believe the Temper W is a better match with this kind of medium to low mass arm.  
 
Now what about the counterweight ? ...... this is what I wrote in the past ..................  
 
Master Limage,  
 
More tinkering on the counter weights. The Reed comes with two counter weights, one which is fairly light but useful if you have a heavier cartridge and other which has a dropped adjustable counterweight in 2 directions, so plenty to play with.  
 
First of all the original setting I had  
 
Photobucket  
 
 
as you can see here, I am just using one counterweight, with the dropped counterweight, moved further back, this means the main holding position is moved closer to the pivot bearing but the dropped counterweight is moved further back. This is normally how I prefer it.  
 
after your initial suggestion of moving the counterweight closer to the bearing, I also mounted the smaller counterweight as you can see here  
 
Photobucket  
 
Now the main counterweight is as close as possible with the dropped counterweight also as close as possible, balancing the move of the main counterweight closer to the bearing has allowed me to push the smaller counterweight into position to adjust to the correct tracking force.  
 
I find the sound more compressed, the mid range in particular looses the magic, although the treble did seem to improve .... so next.....  
 
The main counterweight only, but the dropped counterweight being positioned to get the correct VTF but at the same time pushing the counterweight close to the bearing. You can see that the dropped threaded counterweight is now flush at the end nearest to the bearing  
 
Photobucket  
 
the sound improved, the mid range was better, treble seem to be there so since there was improvement, I decided to now push the dropped threaded counterweight as far back as possible, yet still maintaining the correct VTF  
 
Photobucket  
 
 
this to me the preferred position. Nothing missing here, good air, good treble and magical mids. As far as I can remember, I have not come across many 12 inch arms which allow such adjustments on the counterweights.  
 
I think the experimentation is worth while exercise and not difficult to do. It does prove to me that the dropped counterweight serves a significant purpose, the increase in inertia probably provides better tracking, but certainly the improvement in sound is very audible.  
 
daiwok
11-05-05
14:44:52
回覆 (1268): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
Diawork, thekong, I was so drunk last night, I wasn't aware what I was talking about. I almost had difficulty finding my way home.  
 
Please find this aritcle on the subject of tonearm inertia for sharing. Let me know what you think on the last paragraph about increasing counterweight and position of the counter weight.  
http://www.reed.lt/research/53-research
bobui
11-05-05
13:06:02
回覆 (1267): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
 
>if you are going to get the maximum from your cartridge, you need different size and weight counterweights and even different shapes ! <  
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Mix and match is the way of live with analogue playback! That is also why we have so many arms of different weight! :-)  
 
thekong
11-05-05
11:10:26
回覆 (1266): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
the result with the Midas 103R was mixed, in the sense that the dropped counterweight offered a livelier sound with more air at the highend, while the original counterweight had better body and bass. However, we didn’t really check the weight of the 2 counterweights to see if they are the same! I think the original counterweight was actually heavier.  
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exactly why I asked because it was not night and day with our findings.  
 
One thing that most people have to realise, information given on the cartridge and tonearms are guidelines for ease of setting up and ease of getting a relatively reasonable sound. The counterweight on tonearms is there for ease of use and covers a range of cartridge weights and is never optimized for the one you are personally using. This is why arms such as Audiocraft have tailored tonearm tubes and weights specific for particular cartridges in order to provide optimal balance, performance and playback - this is probably true for Moerch as well.  
 
Like what bobui is doing, if you are going to get the maximum from your cartridge, you need different size and weight counterweights and even different shapes !
daiwok
11-05-05
10:11:25
回覆 (1265): Not yet idler wheel, but Open-Reel ........
>I cannot recall exactly did we experience the same performance on the FR64s with the dropped counterweight ? this is also a method to increase inertia on the arm.<  
 
>However, I note sonic improvements on linear tracking arms with the counterweight far back as well !<  
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Diawok the Magic Hand, I think the findings of our experiment with the original vs dropped counterweights on the FR64S was a bit mixed. While I experienced very positive result using the dropped counterweight with the previous cartridge (couldn’t remember which), the result with the Midas 103R was mixed, in the sense that the dropped counterweight offered a livelier sound with more air at the highend, while the original counterweight had better body and bass. However, we didn’t really check the weight of the 2 counterweights to see if they are the same! I think the original counterweight was actually heavier.  
 
Yes, in the case of linear tracking arm, it is usually better using a lighter counterweight. One of the problems with linear arms is the big difference between the horizontal and vertical effective mass, since the whole mass of the carriage has to move horizontally. So, using a lighter counterweight further away from the pivot would minimize the horizontal effective mass, while increasing the vertical one, hence having a more balanced working condition for the cartridge’s suspension.  
 
 
 
 
>I meant change the body of a high compliance cartridge that comes with soft suspension, lower tracking weight into a new heavy weight body. Would the cartridge still behave as high compliance?<  
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Bobui, the cartridge will remain as high compliance, as it has nothing to do with the body weight, but the suspension of the cantilever. However, adding weight in this position (the very front end of the arm) will increase the effective mass considerably and probably not a good idea for high compliance cartridges.  
 
In the case of the Denon 103R, the original plastic body was too light for its low compliance, so replacing the original plastic body with a heavier aluminium one, like the Midas, works wonder for the cartridge.  
 
 
 
 
thekong
11-05-05
09:43:41