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回覆 (2157): Sunny California
 
About using perfect since wave and the paspt motor, here is what Harry of VIP had to say:  
 
"Both John and Mark are correct on this one, the SDS was designed to produce a perfect sine wave and it does, thank you John. My listening tests tell me a modified square wave makes better music with more power delivered under the curve trace, thank you Mark.  
 
Problem is a non sine wave output will interfer with some equipment that is not shielded well (I have actually seen and heard this) and is tougher on capacitors and motor resonances. If someone would make the Empire/Pabst motor again all would be wonderful in phono land. "  
 
http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=vinyl&n=970660&highlight=sds+sine+wave&r=&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fsearchtext%3Dsds%2Bsine%2Bwave%26b%3DAND%26topic%3D%26topics_only%3DN%26author%3D%26date1%3D%26date2%3D%26slowmessage%3D%26sort%3Dscore
thekong
13-02-21
11:41:28
回覆 (2156): Sunny California
Do bear in mind that if the three phases are excatly matched. Then there can be no current flowing through the netural wire.  
 
I say this to stop the Dr to have a second chance to tease me. No worry if you not into it!
bobui
13-02-21
11:24:50
回覆 (2155): Sunny California
Then the neutral is the ground. And the turntable chassis is not isolated and carry current.  
 
Of course, the best way to be sure is to open up the motor and see how many coils within.  
 
For now, the motor is a less important issue than a clean sine wave for a given desire voltage and current to drive any motors. The phase issue can be handled at later stage.  
 
bobui
13-02-21
11:20:12
回覆 (2154): Sunny California
 
>You sure the Papst is a three phase motor.<  
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Well, all the information that I could found on the internet so far seems to indicated so. Take a look at the following article.  
 
The same holds true for Empire TT using Papst 3 phase.  
 
Apparently there is something special about the Papst 3 phase motor, and even Harry Weisfeld of VPI said he wished the Papst was still in production  
 
Mosin of Saskia also commented that some VPI TT users switched to the Papst 3 phase and got considerable improvement.  
 
http://theanalogdept.com/papst_aussenlaufer.htm
thekong
13-02-21
11:01:24
回覆 (2153): Sunny California
By the way. I have been looking out a VOYD for a very long time. Not the Audionote lor! Its time for Prime rib at your den la, Daiwok.
bobui
13-02-21
10:48:16
回覆 (2152): Sunny California
Bobui - your Alphason has the Atlas PSU.  
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My Alphason/Altas is the King of all for me. Its priceless! There is only one daiwok, right!  
 
bobui
13-02-21
10:43:21
回覆 (2151): Sunny California
I suppose frequency adjustment is a common feature in nearly all Sign G. Of course, its better to cut out all the unnecessary trim pots and limit the frequency range from 40Hz to may be 80Hz by resistor selector.  
 
I have zero idea on how unstable a valve Sign G would be but I have seen worst Sign G built in the 90s not valve.  
 
To be honest with you all. If I were to experiment a power supply for my let say Linn. I would be a lot more interested if most components were based on valves.  
 
You are probably 101% right about drifting problems in valves. And if that is the case, I suppose i could still switch back to Crystal in the sine wave creating stage lor!
bobui
13-02-21
10:37:51
回覆 (2151): Sunny California
I had a 3 x Papst motor in my VOYD which had a PSU with crystal / oscillator.  
 
Bobui - your Alphason has the Atlas PSU. Your version is actually the one taken from the the Alphason Lab and this PSU was designed by Graham Ingle who I met last Summer in France. Graham has some tips on tweaking the PSU further - I will send him a mail.  
 
My understanding is that Papst do not make motors of the turntable nature anymore and they have shifted their business to computer fan motors.  
 
Now for a real motor - the idler wheel types rather than those poxy belt drives ! have you guys taken a god look at the size of the AC motor in the idler drivers ?
daiwok
13-02-21
10:35:08
回覆 (2150): Sunny California
a tube sine wave generator. how accurate do you think you can make it? and how do you vary it? and generate another with different phase! i like challenge but this is more like suicide.
drwkng
13-02-21
10:23:23
回覆 (2150): Sunny California
You sure the Papst is a three phase motor. Likely is similar to the Philips below which I had it dismentled from a Linn LP12 long ago. Its a two phase motor. You see there is one red wire, one blue and two grey. The two grey wires are the return legs connected together to a Lingo or Vahalla. Its likely Papst has joined the two return legs as one so you only see three wires.  
 
Three phase motors are usually very large one lor! Dont get too excited about any turntable built with a three phase motor! You will be very disappointed.  
 
Two phase is good enough. And as for the rpm. Its determined by how you drive your platter. If the connection is between the motor spindle and the outter platter, you may actually need an rmp in the regions of 1,000 rpm or so. If the connection is between a larger motor pully and a smaller diameter sub platter such as in the Linn, then the rpm need not to be so high. Sure diawok knows what i mean from his bike training!
bobui
13-02-21
10:20:46
回覆 (2149): Sunny California
A clock may be a better option  
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Ok, Ok, for now, lets forget about the clock I mentioned yesterday. I mean crystal lor! Meant to tease drwkng.  
 
Last night I was thinking a bit along the line of what Derek2A3 propose and combine the all valve ideas from Kong. "An all valve power supply for an AC motor".  
 
So, what do we need in an AC motor power supply?  
Ans: Clean sine wave capable of sending out a very steady AC voltage of 80 to 220v. Roughly 10 to 100ma. Ok. The Philips/Linn Lingo operate at 80V 16ma.  
 
Below is an example of an all valve signal generator circuit. A typcial one not too complicated and surely not to overly simplfied. I have seen better one and more easliy construct with even fewer valves. The point is if we can amplify the output sine wave to the desire voltage. then we have the basic building block of an all valve motor power supply.  
 
The amplication part which take the output from a few mA to 100mA or above can be a Single ended or push pull depending where you want to start creating the phase splitter.  
 
bobui
13-02-21
10:08:11
回覆 (2149): Sunny California
 
>Three phase total six wires or four if you have all the return legs connected as one. <  
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I really have no idea, but this Papst 3 phase for some Thoren TD 124 also seems to have only 3 wires
thekong
13-02-21
09:58:31
回覆 (2148): Sunny California
One phase one coil. One coil two wires. Three phase total six wires or four if you have all the return legs connected as one.
bobui
13-02-21
09:49:58
回覆 (2147): Sunny California
Dr King, I am a bit confused, as usual! This photo of a VPI motor, not 3 phase, already have 4 wires coming out!  
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4 wires for 2 phase and 3 wires for 3 phase. the coils of 3 phase are internally connected so there are only 3 wires coming out.
drwkng
13-02-21
09:38:26
回覆 (2147): Sunny California
 
OK, this is Paspst 3 phase from an Empire turntable, 3 wires it is!  
 
thekong
13-02-21
08:59:51
回覆 (2146): Sunny California
 
Dr King, I am a bit confused, as usual! This photo of a VPI motor, not 3 phase, already have 4 wires coming out!  
 
Could it be that they are bring used for connections in series / parallel for 110V and 220V applications?  
 
thekong
13-02-21
08:50:58
回覆 (2145): Sunny California
Great, will check it out on Sat!  
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it looks like a 3 phase motor has 3 wires coming out only. this shows how much i know about motor^-^
drwkng
13-02-20
20:25:49
回覆 (2122): Sunny California
I undestand abc2009 just got himself a TD124, but i am not sure whther it use the Papst motor.  
 
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Unfortunately, my TD124 is still using the old motor E 50 not the Papst motor  
 
http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/td124page.html#motor  
 
abc2009
13-02-20
20:05:02
回覆 (2144): Sunny California
 
Great, will check it out on Sat!  
 
thekong
13-02-20
19:21:49
回覆 (2143): Sunny California
Instead of taking the motor out of the casing, is there an easier way to tell whether it is a 3 phase motor, eg. having 4 or 6 wires going into the motor etc?  
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that's what i meant. it should have 6 wires coming out of the motor.
drwkng
13-02-20
19:11:29
回覆 (2142): Off Topic
 
 
daiwok, I'm afraid you'd posted in the wrong thread.  
You have to surrender all the food "as shown" in the photos.  
evp1312
13-02-20
18:24:40
回覆 (2142): Sunny California
 
Instead of taking the motor out of the casing, is there an easier way to tell whether it is a 3 phase motor, eg. having 4 or 6 wires going into the motor etc?  
 
thekong
13-02-20
18:18:38
回覆 (2141): Sunny California
Dr King, just a though, would a Papst 3 phase motor be very hard to drive with a single phase controller, like I mentioned with the Rockport?  
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i don't really know. i suppose if there is enough current to drive the 3 coils, it should be o.k. but you should be able to tell if you look at the motor itself. if that is the case, you can be the first guinea pig for 3 phase drive.
drwkng
13-02-20
18:13:06
回覆 (2140): Sunny California
 
Dr King, just a though, would a Papst 3 phase motor be very hard to drive with a single phase controller, like I mentioned with the Rockport?  
 
I am just wondering whether the Rockport is actually using a Papst 3 phase!  
 
 
thekong
13-02-20
17:58:49
回覆 (2141): Off Topic
You have to surrender all the food shown in the photos.  
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are you sure you want them by now? it ain't pretty^-^
drwkng
13-02-20
17:24:33
回覆 (2140): Off Topic
 
 
daiwok, I'm afraid you'd posted in the wrong thread.  
You have to surrender all the food shown in the photos.  
evp1312
13-02-20
16:50:05
回覆 (2139): Sunny California
A clock may be a better option  
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what does it mean?  
 
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Oh, I think the l is silent too ;-)  
 
thekong
13-02-20
16:22:09
回覆 (2138): Sunny California
shoot ! I am back in Hong Kong already !! I have been to a charcoal table top grill in Costa Mesa 2 years ago .... may be the same one ?  
 
daiwok
13-02-20
16:12:04
回覆 (2137): Sunny California
Daiwok, r u still in Anaheim? If have time, love to meet you and take you to a Japanese charcoal table top grill restaurant in Costa Mesa ....
Cadiver
13-02-20
16:05:28
回覆 (2137): Sunny California
what does it mean?  
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I have not got a clue!
bobui
13-02-20
16:02:45
回覆 (2136): Sunny California
A clock may be a better option  
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what does it mean?
drwkng
13-02-20
15:55:59
回覆 (2135): Sunny California
The required AC voltage for driving the motor is less troublesome. Pretty easy to replicate. Is the clean sine wave that is a little tricky. A clock may be a better option.  
 
bobui
13-02-20
15:45:08
回覆 (2134): Sunny California
it is not a normal amp per se. mind you, you need to generate 220V at the output  
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Wow, not an easy task. Tube power amp should fullfil better, but now we need an output trans of close to 1:1 turning ratio
Derek2A3
13-02-20
15:40:50
回覆 (2133): Sunny California
Silver coil transformers and chocks? :-)  
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I hope you do mean chokes !! @@  
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no. the h is silent.
drwkng
13-02-20
15:25:07
回覆 (2132): Sunny California
Guess we all have idle power amps laying around. Just brain storming  
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well, it is not a normal amp per se. mind you, you need to generate 220V at the output.
drwkng
13-02-20
15:24:21
回覆 (2133): Sunny California
Silver coil transformers and chocks? :-)  
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I hope you do mean chok lor!
bobui
13-02-20
15:23:51
回覆 (2131): Sunny California
If what you need is AC driving power to drive a motor, why not just built a controller that outputs a signal to feed a power amp & get the job done.  
Guess we all have idle power amps laying around. Just brain storming
Derek2A3
13-02-20
15:20:39
回覆 (2132): Sunny California
Silver coil transformers and chocks? :-)  
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I hope you do mean chokes !! @@
daiwok
13-02-20
15:15:39
回覆 (2131): Sunny California
What's the catch between a three phase power supply and Sushi? Chef, we miss your cooking deeply. Are you offering? Or are you suggesting?  
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If you provide the ingredients - I can offer !!
daiwok
13-02-20
15:13:31
回覆 (2130): Sunny California
 
> it of course will still have a decent power supply.<  
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Silver coil transformers and chocks? :-)  
 
thekong
13-02-20
14:22:48