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回覆 (505): A90 -- What HP has to say
daiwok,  
 
U post from the CX lounge?
icefox
10-11-10
22:14:29
回覆 (504): A90 -- What HP has to say
I have to agree, its all subjective. We all have preferences, its what makes us human. I also agree we have no idea what he is hearing. Part of my traveling includes meeting various people in the industry and audiophiles and music lovers. It is important that I also understand what they are hearing. My home is pretty much a open house for my foreign friends who travel from all corners of the world and the key is to share and help each other take everything to another level.  
 
Having said the above, I am still going to perform some surgery very soon.
daiwok
10-11-10
20:38:39
回覆 (503): A90 -- What HP has to say
 
So, who are you going to believe?  
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It’s safer to trust our own ears because we don’t know what their systems sound like and I do think our systems are no less analytical than theirs are.  
 
 
It’s true that “most moving-coil cartridges have a slightly rising treble response” but then it was the norm of the bad old MC days. Modern MC cartridges don’t have this propensity any more than the MMs.  
 
limage
10-11-10
19:10:21
回覆 (502): A90 -- What HP has to say
well it seems I need more basic training since the Dear Doctor has pointed out that "it is the one time HP got it right", so he did he get the A90 wrong ? or I know is that I need to perform more surgery on my carts to bring them to another level ! watch this space !!  
 
see you all at the end of the month when I have artillery and more training  
 
Photobucket
daiwok
10-11-10
19:07:15
回覆 (501): A90 -- What HP has to say
' HP thinks the ClearAudio Goldfinger V2 is the best cartridge in the world!!! '  
 
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Me too. It is the one time HP got it right.  
And he has not heard the V3 yet.  
kh33
10-11-10
17:34:59
回覆 (503): A90 -- What HP has to say
>Its obvious that HP does not how to setup the A90, cannot tune it the way we can and most important - he is not using a linear tracking arm ....... I guess he used the Hi Fi News Record Review LP @[email protected] <  
 
>It's rare for MC cartridges to track all three torture tests with ease on the HF News record..<  
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Interestingly, the following is what Jonathan Valin said in the same issue of TAS:  
 
“For me, most of the problem centers on Harry’s use of the words “bland” and “dull”. Although I believe I know exactly what he means by these descriptors, they are not the words I would have chosen. The words I would’ve chosen are “low in distortion” and “non-resonant”, which, of course, make all the difference in the world.”  
 
“Even right out of the box, the A90 was not a bright-sounding cartridge. Indeed its treble seemed subdued. Almost exactly in the way that the Magico M5’s treble seemed subdued – that is, and once again like the M5, until something with a good deal of upper-midrange or high-frequency information came along………Played back through TAD’s CR1 Compact Monitors (along with the Magico Mini II and M5, one of the three most lifelike dynamic speakers I’ve auditioned, BTW, and a shoe-in for my reference system) via ARC electronics, I don’t know that I’ve ever heard faster, cleaner, more realistic transient response…….)  
 
“Let’s face it. Most moving-coil cartridges have a slightly rising treble response. Analog mavens are used to it; indeed, for many of us, it adds appealing energy to transients, scintillance to partials, and duration to decays. Since the A90 was not adding these things, I could see where, at first, it might seem a little too smooth and well mannered, a little lacking in color and drama, a little, well, dull to some listeners.”  
 
“…the more I listen to the A90 the less I thought of it as lacking in drama and the more and the more I thought of it as just not adding the resonances, physical and electrical, that I’d grown accustomed to with other moving coils.”  
 
“Indeed, this has to be one of the fastest, cleanest, quietest, most clearly focused cartridges I’ve heard…………It is also one of the highest-resolution cartridge I have auditioned…….In the midrange this cartridge has a three-dimensional vividness that is unusually realistic.”  
 
“…Ortofon claims improved trackability; Andre (JV’s set up guy) measured38cm/sec at 1kHZ with OmniDisc, which, though not Shure V15 territory, is very good for a coil – and this was without any viscous damping of the Walker (air-bearing linear tracking) tonearm. The A90 also sailed through the +16db 300Hz test-band of the HiFi News Analogue Test LP.”  
 
So, who are you going to believe? :-)  
 
 
thekong
10-11-10
17:33:40
回覆 (502): A90 -- What HP has to say
 
This HP would not be the same guy I trusted 30 years ago. I guess he would not spend anything more than half an hour setting up any cartridge now (chances were that he might not have set up the cartridge himself), whereas when he tested the Decca V in the heyday, it took him a month.  
 
Or otherwise he must have got a lemon. It's rare for MC cartridges to track all three torture tests with ease on the HF News record. On trackability at least, it is an objective test which is as prejudice free as one could get.  
 
limage
10-11-10
16:57:05
回覆 (501): A90 -- What HP has to say
Its obvious that HP does not how to setup the A90, cannot tune it the way we can and most important - he is not using a linear tracking arm ....... I guess he used the Hi Fi News Record Review LP @[email protected]  
 
Yeah I am interested in mediocre carts - since I can always mod them ^__*
daiwok
10-11-10
16:17:01
回覆 (500): A90 -- What HP has to say
 
>Tracking force was set 0.1 gram higher than the recommended 2.3 gm in order to sail through all three torture bands of the test record. In other words, trackability is excellent<  
 
> Bass definition already carries an authority possibly a notch on top of the Kiseki and dynamic slam is never wanting.<  
 
>I had the A90 fine tuned last evening to squeeze a few more drops of nectar. Breathtaking, to say the least! <  
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Limage,  
 
Those were your comment on the A90! Now, let’s see what HP has to say in the new issue of TAS:  
 
“It is also very bland, and not a little dull especially toward the upper octave, and especially when it comes to reproducing loud harmonic complexities. It may be literal, but it isn’t consistent in the top octave – the offstage trumpet that opens the Kije suite is muted, while the piccolo, conversely sound pitched too high.”  
 
“while the sound is quite clear, its lacks the quality of translucency that lets you hear into the music more deeply. Oh yes, it is also excellent on voice, as the Weaver disc well illustrates, but only okay on the acoustic instruments playing along.”  
 
“Me? I couldn’t wait to move along to the next cartridge in any of our sessions with the Ortofon. It was, I almost forgot to mention, the poorest tracking cartridge in the survey – it simply cannot handle massed brass and other instruments playing at top volume (vide, the horns and trumpet on the Kije)”  
 
Of course, HP thinks the ClearAudio Goldfinger V2 is the best cartridge in the world!!! So, if you decide to let go of your A90, I am sure diawok will be ready to pick up such a mediocre cartridge :-)  
 
thekong
10-11-10
16:02:08
回覆 (499): 四盤八臂十六頭
icefox,  
 
time you moved away form near field listening and get some bigger speakers !  
 
daiwok
10-11-10
15:44:37
回覆 (498): 四盤八臂十六頭
basically icefox you need a bigger den and you need to be sitting 60 ft away given the db level you are playing with, especially with my QUAD ESL !!!! @[email protected]  
 
when you are sitting that far, you cannot hear how noisy your amps are !
daiwok
10-11-10
15:01:51
回覆 (497): 四盤八臂十六頭
Do need some enlightenment here, what exactly "gain structure" is? How do one determine its own system's gain structure? What is the "right" gain structure?  
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starting from where you sit. your distance from your speaker will determine the acoustic power required. taking into account of your speaker efficiency, you should know the power amp required. if u want a quiet system, shouldn't spec your power amp with too high gain. you are asking for your trouble if you spec your power amp with say 125mv for full power output like the beloved 12.1 feeding a speaker with 100db efficiency when you are sitting less than 10 feet from the speaker!
drwkng
10-11-10
14:44:25
回覆 (496): 四盤八臂十六頭
not really. as long as you get the gain structure o.k. you don't need super quiet amps.  
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Do need some enlightenment here, what exactly "gain structure" is? How do one determine its own system's gain structure? What is the "right" gain structure?
icefox
10-11-10
14:24:00
回覆 (495): 四盤八臂十六頭
>>>...The rage at the moment is LCR phono stage ^__^  
 
When LCR was mentioned, one of Kort's schematics came up my mind....
Vash
10-11-10
14:13:20
回覆 (494): 四盤八臂十六頭
um....... I do need it very quiet for my 106 db front horns ^__*  
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not really. as long as you get the gain structure o.k. you don't need super quiet amps. it is only those who like screw up their gain structure and complain about noisy amps^-^
drwkng
10-11-10
12:31:17
回覆 (493): 四盤八臂十六頭
Aesthetix quiet enough then  
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um....... I do need it very quiet for my 106 db front horns ^__*
daiwok
10-11-10
12:27:47
回覆 (492): 四盤八臂十六頭
>Aesthetix quiet enough then?<  
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According to the reports on the internet, quietness is certainly not its strong suit but I assume it is quiet enough. Using low noise tubes is a must for the Io.  
 
thekong
10-11-10
12:13:11
回覆 (491): 四盤八臂十六頭
For all tube phono with high gain, many tubes need to be used and noise is always a issue. For example, the all tube Aesthetix Io with up to 80db of gain employs 8 tubes per channel in the signal path  
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the only issue is the first stage. after that it does not matter that much. is the Aesthetix quiet enough then?
drwkng
10-11-10
11:59:24
回覆 (491): Lenco Meet in Brussels
Just preparing my MIDAS paratrace for the meet - I mounted this up with a 6 point touch on an Orsonic Headshell - it now weighs more than a SPU !!  
 
Photobucket  
 
Photobucket  
 
 
 
daiwok
10-11-10
11:42:46
回覆 (490): 四盤八臂十六頭
The first generation Herron phono also used FET for the MC gain stage.  
 
For all tube phono with high gain, many tubes need to be used and noise is always a issue. For example, the all tube Aesthetix Io with up to 80db of gain employs 8 tubes per channel in the signal path.  
 
thekong
10-11-10
11:39:08
回覆 (490): 四盤八臂十六頭
what is the fun in that? chicken!  
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so long as it sounds good to my ears then I am happy. I spent many years trying to find a tube phono with matching SUT. I had so many SUT's at one stage I lost count.  
 
To bo honest, there are not many good MC phono on the market - lots of them are just cheap crap and people pay a lot of money and then start looking at the rest of the chain thinking the cart is not good enough or the arm is not good enough.  
 
The rage at the moment is LCR phono stage ^__^
daiwok
10-11-10
11:34:27
回覆 (489): 四盤八臂十六頭
The Supratek gets round the noise issue by having FETS prior to the tube stage of the phono.  
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what is the fun in that? chicken!
drwkng
10-11-10
11:27:47
回覆 (488): 四盤八臂十六頭
>i suppose that is measured at 1khz. right?  
is it popular to have just MC input and not MM input?<  
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Yes, the measurement is usually at 1khz.  
 
I think it is quite rare for phono to offer only MC input, but my first generation Herron is like that, they had 2 different versions for MM and MC input only.  
 
Rather then simple MM and MC inputs, many phono stages have selectable gain (40-70+db) and loading in multiple steps.  
 
thekong
10-11-10
11:15:16
回覆 (488): 四盤八臂十六頭
is it popular to have just MC input and not MM input?  
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The truth of the matter is that most "so called MC phono" are in fact MM phono with a SUT. The issues with SUT is matching impedance and gain with the right cartridge - again a typical commercial product which caters for a wide band of so called "average output" cartridges. Call me pedantic but I find such phono's work well only with a certain range of cartridges.  
 
I do understand that it is very hard to make a Tube / Valve MC phono quiet, this is the very reason why most MM Tube phono have a SUT built in or you buy your own. SUT's are not cheap especially good ones.  
 
The Supratek gets round the noise issue by having FETS prior to the tube stage of the phono.
daiwok
10-11-10
11:07:03
回覆 (487): 四盤八臂十六頭
As an average, I believe 0.5mv is about right. Most of the modern phono stages have MM gain of about 40-50db and the MC stage, be it transfromer or active, add another 20-26db of gain or so.  
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i suppose that is measured at 1khz. right?  
is it popular to have just MC input and not MM input?
drwkng
10-11-10
10:57:25
回覆 (486): 四盤八臂十六頭
>looks like 0.5mv is about average. starting with a mm circuit will handle the mc with 10x input transformer. is 0.5v output too low or about right?<  
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As an average, I believe 0.5mv is about right. Most of the modern phono stages have MM gain of about 40-50db and the MC stage, be it transfromer or active, add another 20-26db of gain or so.  
 
thekong
10-11-10
09:07:11
回覆 (487): Dyson
daiwok
10-11-10
05:26:49
回覆 (486): Dyson
Tony88  
 
BUT IT NOW !  
 
 
 
 
 
daiwok
10-11-10
05:24:35
回覆 (485): 四盤八臂十六頭
is 0.5v output too low or about right?  
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too low for me, the higher the gain the better ^__^
daiwok
10-11-09
23:49:10
回覆 (484): 四盤八臂十六頭
For MC, range from about 0.25 to 0.8 mv  
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looks like 0.5mv is about average. starting with a mm circuit will handle the mc with 10x input transformer. is 0.5v output too low or about right?
drwkng
10-11-09
19:43:26
回覆 (483): 四盤八臂十六頭
 
According to the cartridge database, for MM the outputs are roughly from 2.5 to 8 mv.  
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php
thekong
10-11-09
18:37:07
回覆 (482): 四盤八臂十六頭
>can anyone tell me the range of output voltage of popular mc and mm cartridges? <  
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For MC, range from about 0.25 to 0.8 mv  
 
I am not sure about MM  
 
thekong
10-11-09
18:26:56
回覆 (481): 四盤八臂十六頭
can anyone tell me the range of output voltage of popular mc and mm cartridges?  
drwkng
10-11-09
17:54:36
回覆 (480): 四盤八臂十六頭
>>>....四盤八臂十六頭 is merely enough to be considered entry level  
 
Is it too harsh for a beginner ? If so, I have to search for another TT....  
 
Vash
10-11-08
00:25:45
回覆 (479): AVO TEster
As kong & you keep reminding me that 四盤八臂十六頭 is merely enough to be considered entry level  
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I will be bringing back more artillery during my trip ^__^
daiwok
10-11-07
23:13:10
回覆 (478): AVO TEster
daiwok,  
 
The AVO is a good find but I don't see need to owning one as Limage has been so kind in making his top condition AVO tester readily accessible.  
 
As kong & you keep reminding me that 四盤八臂十六頭 is merely enough to be considered entry level. I'd rather saving those funds for other more meaningful areas. ^__^
icefox
10-11-07
23:03:53
回覆 (478): Denon candy
o.k. you can have them by instalments  
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no problem ...... I will be back in town at the end of the month ......
daiwok
10-11-07
23:02:57
回覆 (477): Denon candy
just drop it off with the 80 tubes and the 20W amp we talked about last night ^__*  
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o.k. you can have them by instalments. so 80 tubes first.. unfortunately i thought have more but i can only find six. two RCA 280, 1 RCA 80, 1 national 280, 1 everyready 280 and 1 cunningham 380.
drwkng
10-11-07
22:52:47
回覆 (476): Denon candy
this is at my place now.  
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just drop it off with the 80 tubes and the 20W amp we talked about last night ^__*
daiwok
10-11-07
22:40:09
回覆 (475): Denon candy
 
If anyone wants to have a good tester at home, you may approach Dennis who, as far as I know, has never used it.  
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this is at my place now.
drwkng
10-11-07
22:23:39