Idler Wheel Turntables |
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回覆 (182): HiFi show in Taiwan.
香港的又比下去。。。唉!!!
icefox
10-08-09
17:48:37
回覆 (181): HiFi show in Taiwan.
This is quite interesting.  
http://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=2358
icefox
10-08-09
17:46:26
回覆 (180): servicing the Thorens 124 motor
The funny thing about this VPI is the drive has both the belt and idler elements, so it may have either the advantages of both systems, or the problems of both systems :-O  
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Now that you mentioned this, so does the TD 124 @[email protected]
daiwok
10-08-06
16:26:49
回覆 (179): servicing the Thorens 124 motor
 
The funny thing about this VPI is the drive has both the belt and idler elements, so it may have either the advantages of both systems, or the problems of both systems :-O  
 
thekong
10-08-06
15:56:31
回覆 (178): servicing the Thorens 124 motor
I just notice a new model of VPI TT is idler wheel drive ^^  
 
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I think that is the rim drive which has been out for a couple of years. It has not been a great success, but my view is that the motor is too weak as it still uses the SDS controller. A friend of mine used the SDS controller on his Lenco and smoked the SDS @[email protected]
daiwok
10-08-06
14:10:24
回覆 (177): servicing the Thorens 124 motor
I just notice a new model of VPI TT is idler wheel drive ^^
TaiMonSing
10-08-06
13:53:27
回覆 (176): servicing the Thorens 124 motor
How does it sound ?  
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Needless to say..... original Thorens good sound!
icefox
10-08-06
13:12:16
回覆 (174): Superbearing
takes my breath away!
scallywag
10-08-06
12:53:18
回覆 (173): Superbearing
In order to understand what the clamps do .... the top clamp spreads the load more even at the top and over a wider area. This couples with the bottom clamp like a sandwich with the slate between - you now have a bearing that is totally coupled to the 50mm thick slate as well !
daiwok
10-08-06
12:31:43
回覆 (172): Superbearing
In order to raise the bar further for icefox and Master Kong's appetite I have cleaned out the bearing after the initial 200 hours run in and now I have the super clamps on  
 
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Now we mean business ! ^__^
daiwok
10-08-06
12:29:42
回覆 (175): servicing the Thorens 124 motor
How does it sound ?
daiwok
10-08-06
11:55:26
回覆 (174): servicing the Thorens 124 motor
thanks daiwok for reminding us this matter.  
 
jaspert already shown the link and i overhauled the motor soon thereafter. anyway, an interesting exercise :-)  
 
davwong
10-08-06
11:51:13
回覆 (173): servicing the Thorens 124 motor
Many moons ago davwong asked about this subject  
 
here we go, I found it at last !
http://homepage2.nifty.com/pantone/thorens/overhaul_1.htm
daiwok
10-08-06
10:55:16
回覆 (172): 黑膠
thanks icefox for the kind words ... it was certainly an interesting discussion we had ....  
 
moreover - a lot of good friends here ask me if I got any 黑膠 from my recent visit to Toyko !  
 
Silly questions and here's the answer  
 
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daiwok
10-08-05
15:18:17
回覆 (171): Superbearing
It's another very enlightening session hearing daiwok's Superbearing.  
 
To cut the crap out,  
 
Soothing High + License to kill (remote control) + extreme low bass and low level details = Balance across the whole spectrum + microscopic details + large dose of musicality => 唔驚唔覺又到晚飯ge時候 *_^  
 
daiwoks, thanks a lot for your great hospitality and above all, the superb vegetarian meal and desert.  
 
The motto of the day, be open-minded and as always, have fun!!!
icefox
10-08-05
13:14:49
回覆 (170): Superbearing
 
When it comes to volume setting, it is imperative that one is able to repeat the exact loudness every time in order to zero in the so-called realistic level, which invariably gives you the best attainable performance, time and again.  
 
The remote makes it a bliss to precisely establish this "realistic level" without the hassle of going to and fro between the seat and the pre-amp a dozen times. Variation as little as half a decibel can often make a world of difference.  
 
limage
10-08-04
15:17:13
回覆 (169): Superbearing
Agreed!!! I once consider to make a remote device ( a remote volume turner ) for my preamp with no remote..........
ken1967
10-08-04
14:30:57
回覆 (168): Superbearing
It's no gimmick but an absolute necessity.  
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I totally agree ! the recordings vary so much with some you really have to turn up the volume to increase the listening pleasure.
daiwok
10-08-04
12:15:07
回覆 (167): Superbearing
 
Having got myself spoilt by the convenience and more importantly, the precision on volume setting I could achieve with remote control, I am now utterly convinced that I shall never consider any pre-amp without a remote.  
 
It's no gimmick but an absolute necessity.  
 
limage
10-08-04
10:58:48
回覆 (166): Superbearing
Luckily, there is no remote function with my preamp :-)  
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You have always been luckier than me ^__*
daiwok
10-08-03
23:57:27
回覆 (165): Superbearing
 
>With the Supratek remote control in the hands of the icefox, it was license to kill .....<  
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Luckily, there is no remote function with my preamp :-)  
 
thekong
10-08-03
23:10:59
回覆 (164): Superbearing
After installing sexy legs to the QUADS at the icefox den, then giving icefox another surprise with one of my older amps, we headed off together to hear the superbearing .........  
 
With the Supratek remote control in the hands of the icefox, it was license to kill ..... he just kept turning up the volume @[email protected]  
 
I think the remote coupled with the Superbearing was another big surprise for the icefox ^__^
daiwok
10-08-03
22:14:10
回覆 (163): Thomas Schick 12 inches tonearm
drooling over the superbearing!
scallywag
10-07-21
10:56:04
回覆 (162): Thomas Schick 12 inches tonearm
What's your comment regarding this arm in compared to SME 3012 or Ortofon RMB309?  
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I know its much better than SME 3012, RMB309 I cannot comment.
daiwok
10-07-21
10:42:23
回覆 (161): Thomas Schick 12 inches tonearm
I just placed an order for 6 Schick arms with Thomas. I have known Thomas for a number of years.  
 
I am away until end of the month. If you are still interested, I can help.
daiwok
10-07-21
10:23:56
回覆 (160): Thomas Schick 12 inches tonearm
Hi Ching,  
I'm very interested to buy a Thomas Schick arm for my 124 and 301 TT.  
 
What's your comment regarding this arm in compared to SME 3012 or Ortofon RMB309?  
How can I order this arm in Hong Kong? I have email to him but without reply.  
 
Regards,  
Eddie
ESLL
10-07-21
10:07:51
回覆 (159): Just going
Before I take off again, here are my new toys from a recent trip to UK. Of course these are Bespoke made for my requirements ^__*  
 
Left is a new Super Bearing made by a friend in UK, the one on the right is a Titanium Bearing made in the US which I have been using for a few months now and below the new Tomhawk wand which even better in real life !  
 
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daiwok
10-07-21
08:54:33
回覆 (158): Just back
I prefer this version which is not as funny as the Canto version ^__*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoiHOzWsX_w
daiwok
10-07-18
01:36:35
回覆 (159): By the way!
diawok,  
 
I am indeed looking forward to have the slate Lenco in my system! As discussed, in the mean time I will try to make some adjustment to see if I can squeeze out more dynamics from my current system :-)  
 
 
 
 
 
thekong
10-07-18
01:03:14
回覆 (159): By the way!
 
 
 
My application for a full seaview apartment in Yau Tong under the Home Ownership Scheme has also been rejected on the ground that I have declared I have 3 pairs of ESLs with their corresponding humble amplification systems. I am sure if your application was approved and the Govt would have conducted a subsequent due diligence on your similar assets, you will be put to jail. You just can't say everything belongs to Feikeung, can you?  
 
 
 
cpsjj
10-07-18
01:03:06
回覆 (158): By the way!
BTW, my application for the very nice public housing right opposite to The Hermitage has just been rejected for no grounds. I was asked to re-submit an application when I become 65, damn it @[email protected]!
icefox
10-07-17
22:21:47
回覆 (157): Just back
Hope you like today's rendition of this song ...... now you will not get this out of your head now ^__^  
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I thought you want to post this ^__* ,  
 
icefox
10-07-17
22:05:51
回覆 (157): Just back
kong - it was really beautiful hearing the harmonics and natural tone your system can bring out. Its really magical stuff ....... I also see the reserved space for the idler wheel, so I will prepare this for you when I am back from my next trip which I am sure will make things very interesting ^__^
daiwok
10-07-17
17:02:52
回覆 (156): Just back
icefox .......  
 
Hope you like today's rendition of this song ...... now you will not get this out of your head now ^__^  
 
daiwok
10-07-17
17:00:43
回覆 (155): Thanks
回覆 (154): Thanks  
Still recovering now [email protected][email protected] That Lenco needs a proper dedicated table my friend ^_  
 
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I will when i'm done later.:)
jaspert
10-07-01
20:17:15
回覆 (154): Thanks
Still recovering now [email protected][email protected] That Lenco needs a proper dedicated table my friend ^__*
daiwok
10-06-30
23:07:41
回覆 (153): Thanks
Back breaking business.Thanks guys. May be a round of drinks in the future.
jaspert
10-06-30
22:53:59
回覆 (133): Back to Basics
From Arthur Salvatore's site ........  
 
I can understand how some audiophiles will read the above review/essay and come to the conclusion that this entire Lenco/Idler-drive Vintage Story "is just too good (or strange) to be true". In fact, I felt exactly the same way until what I heard, in my own system, with my own ears, convinced me that it was all valid. So, to be clear, when it comes to idler-drive turntables: There is a real "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow".  
 
This means, at the very least, I strongly advise all phono-oriented audiophiles to hear a good idler-drive turntable, in a system you're familiar with, even if it's inconvenient. Simply ignoring these models, as I did for (too many) years, is not only unproductive, it touches on plain stupidity and even arrogance. "Excuses", at this point, are just a mask for some form of bias or denial.  
 
However, despite my passionate convictions (which are common for a new "convert"), I feel it's also much too easy to simplify both what I (and others) have observed and the resulting conclusions I later formed. The first fundamental reality about idler-drives is...  
 
The Unavoidable Caveat  
While idler-drive turntable may offer the highest potential performance, these models also require the greatest effort to reach that level of performance. That's the trade-off, and it's also what ultimately doomed them in the audio marketplace. So there is no "free lunch" here, but there is still much for audiophiles to celebrate, because the good news dwarfs the hurdles. For example...  
 
Some audiophiles will be able to achieve most of the idler-drives potential by themselves, if they have the necessary DIY skills and/or with kits. Further, considering their performance/price ratio, Lenco models modified by others, such as Jean Nantais (and maybe OMA), also offer outstanding value for the money when compared to competing turntable designs, even including those being sold used and heavily discounted. This is the reason why I can eventually see a time where all the existing turntable manufacturers will offer their own idler (or rim) drive model.  
 
Some Tragic History  
This brings us to the question of why the idler-drives died out in the first place? There are people who are far better positioned to answer this question than I am, especially if they were on the "inside" of the turntable business back in the 1970's. Still, looking back now though, 30 to 40 years later...  
 
I believe that audio took a tragic "wrong turn" when it moved completely away from idler-drives. Audio did the same thing with tube electronics, but that didn't last long (a few years), while (high quality) idler-drives are still not manufactured today. This neglect was caused partially by ignorance, but also by the idler-drive manufacturers themselves, who did NOT evolve their turntables like the other serious turntable manufacturers. So, in the end, they were their own worst enemy. They had an inherent design superiority and they never took full advantage of it.  
 
In fact, I am convinced that if any turntable manufacturer, 30 years ago, had built idler-drives as seriously as Goldmund built direct-drives, or as Micro-Seiki built belt-drives, we would still have idler-drive turntables being made today. Instead, we have the comedy/tragedy of a relatively mediocre turntable, the Linn Sondek, surviving all these decades, while ironically claiming a special performance capability in those exact areas, such as "PRaT", in which any good idler-drive is so far superior to it that the "comparison" is actually grotesque.  
 
The Issue of Money  
I can't avoid the question of money and cost, especially in comparison to the (belt-drive) alternatives. I look at this way; the Forsell, if made today, would cost around $ 25,000 (with tonearm, and if one considers 18 years of inflation). It has outstanding performance indeed, but the Reference Lenco (now $ 6,000) is noticeably better. The only two commercial turntables that I believe could be even better than the Reference are the Saskia ($ 36,000) and the Kuzma Stabi, 4 motor version ($ 30,000). The only other alternative is the OMA Anatase, which may also be an outstanding performer and value.  
 
As for those almost countless turntables with a single belt-drive, I seem them as fundamentally flawed, no matter what they cost, and no matter what lengths are taken to optimize the rest of the turntable (heavy platter, super bearings, "space-age" materials, "microscope ready" suspension etc). It's like someone running the Olympic finals of the 100 meter dash with full body metal armour, and still expecting to win. To quote a "mainstream" reviewer, who actually owns a $ 125,000 version of this metal clad "sprinter"; "They're a lost cause".  
 
The Bottom Line  
Am I disturbed that I didn't get on the idler-drive "bandwagon" before this? No! If you allow yourself to think this way, you will eventually drive yourself crazy (and not just about audio related issues). I also listened to transistors for years and to pentode output tubes for decades (before moving to SET amplifiers). All that matters now is that I've experienced what a good idler-drive can uniquely accomplish, and I'm relating those experiences and observations to others, as best as I can.  
 
Finally, to be direct, and maybe even crude, I put my money where my mouth is. My detailed reasons for doing so are above.
daiwok
10-06-30
22:51:46
回覆 (152): Medical Stone
A lot of the local guys had a big hand in this, Sing and Scallywag did the cleaning and oiling, kong and icefox did the packing. The Magic in Medical Stone will give a true healing from vinyl playback ! The whole package with the platter and PTP3, bearing etc is nudging everything close to 100 lbs !!
daiwok
10-06-30
20:45:25
回覆 (151): Medical Stone
Australian Custom had cleared some packages labelled as "Medical Stones Sample" from HK today. ;)  
 
Thanks Daiwok for all your effort and also to the fellow helpers who'd help packed the stones. :) I really appreciate it. Hopefully i will get it up and running soon after some touch up. In the mean time, my custom bearing has gone missing, supposedly sent 6 weeks ago from UK with no record/tracking.Frustrating.  
 
 
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jaspert
10-06-30
20:15:58