Idler Wheel Turntables |
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回覆 (17): Idler Wheel Turntables
>I won't be able to stop the beast spinning at constant speed by pressing heavily on the rim of the platter itself! <  
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Limage,  
 
Really? If that is the case, there must be something wrong with my unit as I can stop in by pressing my finger on the rim!  
 
I must try it out on your SP10 II when I visit you next :-)  
 
 
 
thekong
09-02-03
13:26:25
回覆 (16): Idler Wheel Turntables
Dear all,  
 
May I said like this, different kind of driving method also will cause certain vibration. For the hard plinth TT, the best method of enhancement is increase the mass of plinth. So, it should be another picture after you change a quality plinth.  
 
Cheers  
Sing
TaiMonSing
09-02-03
13:21:07
回覆 (15): Idler Wheel Turntables
 
 
David,  
 
You have a most intriguing moniker!  
 
Nice to see you here embarking upon something of great interests to die-hard vinyl lovers, whose numbers are nothing short of overwhelming in this particular forum.  
 
I'll be most curious too, to know how the idle-wheelers are up to when comparing to direct drives if motor torque alone can play the winged messenger bringing music alive. The Technics SP-10 II then ought to have little peers since I won't be able to stop the beast spinning at constant speed by pressing heavily on the rim of the platter itself!  
 
And I also wonder if plinths of comparable elaboration are being offered for belt drives, would it not also make a world of difference !?  
 
 
 
limage
09-02-03
12:33:02
回覆 (14): Idler Wheel Turntables
Thanks all.  
 
Yeah, I agree that whatever which model or drive method. We just looking for the less money to play the best music for us. :D  
TaiMonSing
09-02-03
11:59:31
回覆 (13): Idler Wheel Turntables
>It's really DD or idler drive durable than belt drive? <  
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Sing,  
 
I completely agreed with David, the reliability really depends on the model.  
 
 
thekong
09-02-03
11:53:19
回覆 (12): Idler Wheel Turntables
thekong,  
 
Yes your right, a good belt drive is just as nice - I have 2 of them - although my preference is idler at the moment. May be the idler is only getting noticed because of the high price of high end belt drive so the keen DIYers have gone looking for cheaper alternatives. I am open minded as always, if not I will not have found probably the cheapest idler drive turntable anywhere. We are looking at HKD 500 for one on EBAY !  
 
Just like tubes, like speakers etc we all have preferences, we are human and if were all in agreement and liked all the same things, life would be so boring :)  
 
Yes, lets have a party, when we are all ready.  
 
Sing,  
 
The question is not valid up to a certain extent. It really depends on the manufacturer on how well made or design the product is. Yes in the sense older turntables tend to last longer because they were over engineered - however, the Linn Sondek has been around just as long as the Lenco L75.
daiwok
09-02-03
11:21:40
回覆 (12): Idler Wheel Turntables
Dear thekong hing,  
 
How about durable question?  
It's really DD or idler drive durable than belt drive?  
 
Cheers  
Sing
TaiMonSing
09-02-03
11:10:59
回覆 (11): Idler Wheel Turntables
daiwok,  
 
As CP have mentioned in another thread, belt, idler, and DD have different strengths and weaknesses, and we need to look at the whole system rather than just the drive formats. It might be true that one of the original reasons for introducing belt drive was to reduce cost. However, when manufacturers started to tackle with the inherited shortcomings of belt drive by using heavy platters, 2 motors, 3 motors, thread/tape drives etc, their cost advantage virtually vanished. As we see now, the price of high-end belt drive tables have raised to an exorbitant level. Maybe that’s why manufacturers are again looking into idler and DD. Of course, doing idler and DD right is probably not cheap either, but when top manufacturers like VPI and Teres, who have earned their fame through belt drives, starts offering idlers and DD as their flagships, we may really be witnessing the start of a dramatic shift of thinking.  
 
Of all the idler and DD that I have heard, I felt they all shared a common characteristics of having enormous drive, which translated into a more powerful sound presentation. The belt drive, in comparison, sounds more mellow and relaxing. It is not a matter of one being better than the other; they probably fit different taste and/or music. Actually, I am using mylar ribbon as belt on my table, which helps to improve on the drive, but the tensioning of the ribbon is critical.  
 
After we sort out the plinths for the Lenco, Garrard 301, and Technics SP10 etc., lets have a big party comparing all of them with a belt drive. :-)  
 
 
thekong
09-02-03
10:30:36
回覆 (10): Idler Wheel Turntables
David,  
 
Do you notice Lin has lanch a MG3 turntable ?  
 
Cheers  
Sing
TaiMonSing
09-02-03
10:13:41
回覆 (9): Idler Wheel Turntables
Yes, it's just like have endless energy....what's lives? @[email protected]  
 
Full of music in every corner in my house.....you know it's really serious...haha
TaiMonSing
09-02-02
23:59:45
回覆 (8): Idler Wheel Turntables
very nice ! The Altec Peerless is a very good match ! enjoy after you have burn in the cart.
daiwok
09-02-02
23:46:04
回覆 (7): Idler Wheel Turntables
HI David,  
 
Welcome you aboard !!!!  
 
I just DIY a transformer case to match with the Denon shell.  
 
Cheers  
Sing
TaiMonSing
09-02-02
23:42:36
回覆 (6): Idler Wheel Turntables
Yes Panndan, the wooden arm is only USD 200 !! a nice match with the Decca London as well. Have fun with the LENCO's welcome to ask questions freely if need be.
daiwok
09-02-02
23:10:30
回覆 (5): Idler Wheel Turntables
thekong - thank you ! it was a pleasure like I said to have high hands to give me insight to true high end.  
 
Yes there is a revival for the past year on the idler drives - with direct drive I was not aware of. I am not experienced in the high end direct drives only very early Technics. I know Denon made some serious DD for broadcasting.  
 
I was aware of the development of the Teres rim drive and later the VPI rim drive. It is an interesting discussion as I have had 2 motor belt turntable and also 3 motor belt turntable and I thought for the past 20 years almost that was the way to go. Then we get magnetic drives as well ! it all makes sense ? no ? when I experimented with the idler drive, I was stunned. Musical, more direct, dynamic - the key was musical !! I found a lot of the modern turntables with huge platters, huge motors sounding very refine, but lacked musicality. Does it make sense they are competing with the digital era in tems of detail ? yet when we revisit vintage gear and past hi fi equipment, we find them more enjoyable.  
 
What I set out to do with the help of many Lenco owners on the forum, and more particulalrly myself was to see how best to keep musicality yet bring the refinement which we needed to meet todays expectations. I am sure those who have heard the mod LENCO will say its very enjoyable and does not lack refinement. It may not be the best, but to me good enough.  
 
I think it is important to understand why there is a difference. Like most aspects you look back at history. The belt drive was introduced to reduce costs. Yet I repect that belt drives have been developed to a point where I think they are at their peak right now. Nothing wrong on what has been engineered so far to date. The idler drive has a much higher torque constant contact with the platter, with no slippage, stretching of the belt etc I know on belt drives they have compensated this with heavy platters to give it the inertia it requires, but big platters store energy. I believe the key is high torque created by the idler motors which gives it this sound. With large motors comes large vibrations - rumble ! once the rumble is controlled we have a turntable system which is allowed to sing with high torque - the only question begs - DD or Idler is better ?
daiwok
09-02-02
23:09:13
回覆 (5): Idler Wheel Turntables
Hi David,  
Yes,it's me.  
I have bought two vintage for fun and DIY projects.  
The awesome sound of Sing's Lenco with wooden arm did give me a shock .
penndan
09-02-02
21:50:44
回覆 (4): Idler Wheel Turntables
Hi daiwok,  
 
Welcome to 1 Peking Road!  
 
I must thank you again for the audition yesterday. I think the topic of idler turntables is very interesting. While I have read in various overseas forums that a well designed heavy plinth could tremendously enhance an idler turntable, I believe very few Hong Kong audiophiles had any experience with it. I was very intrigued with reports on seasoned audiophiles replacing their top tier belt drive tables with re-plinthed idlers. Actually, I also have a Garrard 301 in my possession, and the only reason why I haven’t experiment with it is that I didn’t know anyone who could make a nice plinth locally. I am very impressed with your slate plinth, and considering getting one for my 301.  
 
Apparently, there is also a resurrection of idler/DD tables in the commercial sector, with VPI, Teres, BDR, and OMA offering modern tables with idler and direct drives!  
 
 
 
 
 
thekong
09-02-02
17:26:10
回覆 (3): Idler Wheel Turntables
Hi Penndan,  
 
I think we met once before at Sing's place when I was first setting up the LENCO ? I see you take some nice photos.  
 
Nice to see you posting a photo of Sing's LENCO which was one of my first builds. Its a really nice turntable and still love seeing it. I guess Sing is still breaking in his Denon 103R. I know there are discussions on whether nude or body is better for a Denon mod cart, but I can safely say that those who have experienced both prefer the cart with body. Its purely a resonance tuning exercise. I have played with a number of Wooden bodies in the past.  
 
I still have a number of LENCO's here and in UK which are still very very cheap on EBAY. Myself I have a Garrard 301 which is also very nice with upgraded KOKOMO Bearing. The Garrard is more easy and relaxing, but less revealing that the LENCO, having said that the next step is to slate the Garrard 301.
daiwok
09-02-02
15:29:23
回覆 (2): Idler Wheel Turntables
sorry, wrong photo.
penndan
09-02-02
15:11:31
回覆 (1): Idler Wheel Turntables
Hi,  
you must be David.Is it the turntable you are talking about?  
What is your latest DIY now? Please show some pix here.
penndan
09-02-02
15:09:10